We’re rejoining the Horizon programme….

existence, sorry.

Maremia

Sorry folks, back to the flags, yes, musicians were badly let down by BREXIT, and not just the elite ones URMS. Lots of working class musicians and performers find it very very difficult to try to get exposure and experience in Europe. Didn't the Beatles start out in Germany? UK Cruise line performers lost their jobs with European operating companies, who found the tsunami of forms too much to deal with.

Didn't the Beatles start out in Germany?

That was in 1960, way before the UK was allowed to join the EEC and before the EU was in existed.

As of August 2023, 55 percent of people in Great Britain thought that it was wrong to leave the European Union, compared with 33 percent who thought it was the right decision. www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

Kandinsky

I’ve been on GN for years and the only posters I’ve seen hurling insults around have been remainers.
They still ‘demand’ leavers give their reasons for voting brexit ( 10 years on) still insist leavers have ruined their lives & stolen their children’s futures etc etc - no wonder hardly any leavers post on this board.
The vast, vast, majority of people on the news & politics board are anti government, & anti brexit, and a few have been extremely insulting over the years. One or two possibly even banned as I haven’t seen one particular one in a while.
So all this singling out one leave voter as ‘okay’ is quite insulting in itself don’t you think? It just means the rest of us are inferior species who can’t string a sentence together.
So yes, an insult in disguise.

Not an insult at all Kandinsky

Urms has been singled out because she's charming and witty in her posts and comes across as a very likeable person.

... and the point being made is that you can be at polar opposites politically and still be friends - and Urms makes that quite easy.

Yes Maybe70, they didn't know and they didn't care.

Maremia

Sorry folks, back to the flags, yes, musicians were badly let down by BREXIT, and not just the elite ones URMS. Lots of working class musicians and performers find it very very difficult to try to get exposure and experience in Europe. Didn't the Beatles start out in Germany? UK Cruise line performers lost their jobs with European operating companies, who found the tsunami of forms too much to deal with.

Lots of bands that are now longer popular here are still popular in Europe and tour extensively, along with people like a friend of mine that is a roadie/sound man. It’s been difficult for them. It was just mentioned on the lunchtime politics programme that Johnson ( one of the ‘brains’ behind Brexit), who was foreign Secretary at the time, went up to Barry Gardiner one day and asked him ‘ Barry, what exactly is the customs union’…..

😀oh yes.

God knows - it is my total incompetence I think.

I’ll ask one of the children next time they are over - if I remember.

Whitewavemark2

maizie thanks for that. Not only can’t I do links unless it is part of the cut and paste, but now I can’t post from the saved stuff to my photos. My I-pad is useless - or I suppose it could be me🤔

I think you have confused threads here, Wwmk2

Mind you, I still don't understand why you can't do links on your ipad. I've a mini ipad and it does links just fine...

maizie thanks for that. Not only can’t I do links unless it is part of the cut and paste, but now I can’t post from the saved stuff to my photos. My I-pad is useless - or I suppose it could be me🤔

Great post, MOnica 👏

Sorry folks, back to the flags, yes, musicians were badly let down by BREXIT, and not just the elite ones URMS. Lots of working class musicians and performers find it very very difficult to try to get exposure and experience in Europe. Didn't the Beatles start out in Germany? UK Cruise line performers lost their jobs with European operating companies, who found the tsunami of forms too much to deal with.

monica absolutely - my mother born 1918 was appalled as was my aunt born 1928. They thought the country had gone mad, with very short memories.

25Avalon Between 1870 and 1945, 75 years, there were three major European wars. The first the Franco-Prussian war (1870-71), then WW1 (1914-18) aand finally WW2 (1939-45). Since 1945 and with the formation of the EU there have been no major trans-European conflicts.

The purpose of European cooperation was to try to end war between European countries by building up a network of co-operation between countries in major industry.

The first organisation was the European Coal and Steel Community, which aimed at integrating the operation of the iron and staeel industry in Europe. This was far more than a mere trade agreement, political co-operation was at its heart and the political co-operstion at the heart of European Community in all its forms has never been hidden. Its purpose was to ensure that wars like WW" never happened again in Europe. This purpose was never hidden and was always overt and spoken about.

Research done by the LSE after the 2016 referendum showed that while older voters, as a group were more likely to vote to leave the EU, when the attitudes and votes of the over 75s, people who had memories of the war, were analysed they were far more likely to vote to remain because they fully understood the political basis of the EU and its predecessors and with memories of the war and its immdiate aftermath, valued the peace Europe had had since 1945 and recognised how important Europeaan cooperation had been to . logs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennial

MaizieD

There have been EU flags at the Last Night of the Proms for a number of years now. No-one has complained before...

Last stand 😀😀

There have been EU flags at the Last Night of the Proms for a number of years now. No-one has complained before...

😀 snap

The music industry is one of the ones most affected by Brexit, another group of people that leave voters didn’t care about.

There are quite a few authoritarian MPs in the Tory party.

We are allowed choice as long as they approve.

I think that the flags were provided by the Musicians union who have been so badly hit by Brexit.

WWM, about the flags at the Last Night of the Proms. There is a furore about this by a few, but very much listened to, MPs. Outside the venue there were two people handing out flags, (photographic evidence of this on social media). One was distributing the Union flag, the other The EU flag. The audience chose and waved the flags they wanted. This happens in a democratic society.
Those MPs expecting the BBC 'to do something about it' are wishing to suppress audience choice. That is nothing less than DICTATORSHIP, and that inclination should be eradicated in a free society.

FACT CHECK

Horizon.

The U.K. was excluded from the Horizon programme because after agreeing and signing the NI protocol over how the U.K. withdrawal would be managed in NI - Johnson went off on a tangent and regardless of the risk to the peace process took independent action in relation to goods travelling between mainland Britain, NI and the EU single market.

The EU used the Horizon programme as a tool to get the U.K. to abide by the signed agreement.

It worked - remember Windsor?

Now the U.K. is allowed back in.

FACT CHECK

1. The ability to develop and distribute the covid vaccination independently would have no affect if we had still been members of the EU. There is nothing in EU law that would prevent this.

2. As members of the EU a country can help Ukraine under two umbrellas. Firstly as a joint member giving vast quantities of aid under the EU umbrella, and second as an independent country. The two biggest independent contributors are France and Germany.

*25 Avalon*: "Not being in the EU meant we got our own vaccine for Covid first and we have been able to help Ukraine. Brexit deniers will not accept any of this so I’m off for more worthwhile persuits."

Why on earth should anyone accept your points when they are based on wishful thinking?
I had the first covid vaccination one week before my cousin in Sweden; a member state of the EU. The subsequent vaccinations my cousin had before I did. Deal with that please.

I see that the U.K. is being reported to the UN over its strike law - it breaks international standards apparently.

Incidentally, who are "they"? The cat's mothers?

It would be worth discussing with people who actually have direct experience of applying for and receiving Horizon funding and how the whole system worked.

Oreo

25Avalon

Trurider you are banging your head on a brick wall. I suggest abandoning this thread as they will never ever concede any point you make. Sad really.

It seems from the rude replies that you’re right☹️
As someone who voted to remain in the EU I was disappointed with their attitude about us staying in the Horizon programme ( and no, being out of the club shouldn’t have had anything to do with it.) Countries not in the EU are in Horizon.It was used as a bargaining chip by the EU, sadly.
Anyone who thinks the EU doesn’t do anything like that needs to think again.

How do you work out that that she's right?

Sorry, but the logic is flawed.