The “yes” vote in Australia

I've seen arguments for and against on FB

Perhaps you’d all like indigenous peoples to live like a few people still do in the Amazon, without any modern developments

Some still live in the traditional ways but all children will go to school although home education is popular amongst every community.

Fleurpepper

Let's transfer out thought to the USA - should the native Indians be represented in Government? Should they be 'grateful' for the invasions, destructions, and wonderful culture that has been imposed on them? Should they make more efforts to 'integrate' into that new society?

No, don't lets.
That muddies the waters and Australia is not America, thank goodness.

Fleurpepper in Australia everyone has a vote and the chance of representation in Parliament. There are local groups with representatives who already advise.
Well-educated, intelligent people from Aboriginal communities who know what is needed for the whole of Austrlian society but one poster suggested that this meant they had been subjected to a Westernised upbringing!!
That is patronising in the extreme.

I'm not arguing that there is a long way to go, progress is slow and the situation in Australia was shocking with children being removed from families until the 70s but is this the right way?

The problem is that, if the answer is No, what then and will this cause more division?
That would be counter-productive.

If Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples all agreed on the referendum it might be a start, but they don't.

There are more questions than there are answers.

www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd2223a/23bd080#:~:text=of%20the%20Bill-,The%20purpose%20of%20the%20Constitution%20Alteration%20(Aboriginal%20and%20Torres%20Strait,Torres%20Strait%20Islander%20Voice%20(the

Or on the other hand, should everyone in the world live like they did 200/300 years ago?
No transport, little medical care, no electricity, no water plants and clean water, no sewage treatment plants, and everyone stay exactly where they born. (No decamping to Europe for a better life then!!!)
Like the sound of that!
Ridiculous arguments being put forward. Change and development happens. Perhaps you’d all like indigenous peoples to live like a few people still do in the Amazon, without any modern developments.
Sorry, you can’t turn back time, although I think Cher sang about doing so in one of her songs.

Let's transfer out thought to the USA - should the native Indians be represented in Government? Should they be 'grateful' for the invasions, destructions, and wonderful culture that has been imposed on them? Should they make more efforts to 'integrate' into that new society?

Freya5

First Europeans, 1788, nearly 500 years ago, well before our time. We had no say in who invaded our country either.

Well yes, our recent forebears. Some in family went to Victoria/Melbourne to plant vineyards in the early 19th. This is all very documented- very close history.

The early invasions to the UK, taking over from the Celts- were much much earlier.

First Europeans, 1788, nearly 500 years ago, well before our time. We had no say in who invaded our country either.

Oreo

Hmmm, how about reparation from those colonising Normans then?
If Alistair Campbell and that twit Rory Stewart use a word then it must be right hey?
It’s used as an insult, pure and simple.

An insult? How?

Oh yes, Angles, Saxons, Picts, Jutes, Danes and Vikings...do remind us, when was that? And when was Australia colonised?

Silvergirl

I’m so heartened by your post Cannana. It is good to know some people care about people less fortunate than themselves. Surely giving these people a Voice is a step in the right direction of them feeling respected.

It's a referendum.

The problem with a referendum, as we all know, is that it could come back with what some will believe is the wrong answer.

I still don't see why people cannot be given a voice and advise Government without a change of the Constitution.
So much work has and is being done to try to right the wrongs of the past and more does need to be done.

But what if the answer is No?
What then?

Perhaps Australians on here might be able to enlighten me.

I’m so heartened by your post Cannana. It is good to know some people care about people less fortunate than themselves. Surely giving these people a Voice is a step in the right direction of them feeling respected.

Oreo

Hmmm, how about reparation from those colonising Normans then?
If Alistair Campbell and that twit Rory Stewart use a word then it must be right hey?
It’s used as an insult, pure and simple.

Thank you for your considered, temperate and well thought out reply.

Hmmm, how about reparation from those colonising Normans then?
If Alistair Campbell and that twit Rory Stewart use a word then it must be right hey?
It’s used as an insult, pure and simple.

Thank you for your explanation Whitewave. It’s appreciated. We just agree to disagree.

maddyone

Cannana

I have lived and worked in Alice Springs as a midwife and was saddened and shocked by the poor health outcomes of indigenous women I witnessed there. They are strong and beauty women who need a Voice. I will vote yes because Aboriginal people need the dignity of recognition in the Parliament surely it has got to be a step forward. There is a lot of misinformation out there lots of crazy ideas. I have stopped listening to the no debate it doesn’t make as much sense to me as the yes debate in fact I just get annoyed.

This is a sensible and informative post. Thank you.
It makes no difference to those of us in Britain, or anywhere else that’s not Australia, what the outcome of the referendum will be, but if a yes vote helps the Aboriginal people in some ways, then I should think that’s a good thing.
I still maintain that it’s nothing to do with me ( or you if you’re not Australian) and I still object to the term colonisers because not only is it derogatory, it’s meant to be derogatory. No need for it. Leave the Australians to their own affairs.

And the Australian posters who post about our politics.

Honestly - it really is one world now, and what happens in any country almost certainly has influence in another.

I have used the term colonisers because it was the term used by Rory Stewart and Alaister Campbell when they were talking about the subject.

Like you I was initially uncomfortable about the term, but gave it a lot of thought and realised that from the aborigines viewpoint, that is exactly as they were/are seen. It is probably uncomfortable perhaps for those who have recently arrived in Australia (the past 200 years or so) but it is the best description in my view as to what happens to indigenous folk when aliens arrive without a by your leave or thank you, grabbed your ancestral lands, told you that your ancient religion was rubbish and theirs much better, took away you children and introduced a drug for which your body has no defence. On top of that they have violated your precious lands to make vast quantities of wealth from which you have not gained nor in many cases want to.

I think colonisers is quite polite in the circumstance.

The vision for The Voice to Parliament from an Indigenous leader supporting Yes:

The Indigenous Voice to parliament is about getting the country’s First Peoples off welfare, into jobs, and keeping kids at school
Noel Pearson

www.afr.com/politics/federal/help-us-help-ourselves-pearson-s-vision-for-voice-20230727-p5drop#:~:text='Help%20us%20help%20ourselves'%3A%20Pearson's%20vision%20for%20Voice&text=For%20Noel%20Pearson%2C%20the%20Indigenous,and%20keeping%20kids%20at%20school.

Sorry, posted too soon

It still puzzles me that someone seemed to think that Senator Price is unaware of the issues just because she has a Celtic father.
Some of her opponents have been quite vicious in their comments about her.

eagleswings

No wonder these indigenous peoples are still lacking in hope and direction, they are a people still suffering grief from having had their children taken from them and given to white families to raise. This was happening in the 50s, not that long ago. They are a people (like the North American Indian) who had a dialogue with the land when travelling through. When an aborigine travels in a car their language speeds up. Both people’s have been, over the years, confined to reservations which for them is like being confined to prison. Australian settlers need to make reparation for this shameful recent, history. The first step is to give these indigenous peoples a voice and then plenty of financial support and help for as long as it takes. Share the wealth with these people.

eagleswings that was still happening up until the 1970s!! 😲
Were we aware here in the UK? No.

Leave the Australians to their own affairs

I agree, however, it seems to keep appearing on my FB page from various sources so I was interested in the different viewpoints.

It puzzled me that someone seemed to think that Senator Price

Cannana

I have lived and worked in Alice Springs as a midwife and was saddened and shocked by the poor health outcomes of indigenous women I witnessed there. They are strong and beauty women who need a Voice. I will vote yes because Aboriginal people need the dignity of recognition in the Parliament surely it has got to be a step forward. There is a lot of misinformation out there lots of crazy ideas. I have stopped listening to the no debate it doesn’t make as much sense to me as the yes debate in fact I just get annoyed.

This is a sensible and informative post. Thank you.
It makes no difference to those of us in Britain, or anywhere else that’s not Australia, what the outcome of the referendum will be, but if a yes vote helps the Aboriginal people in some ways, then I should think that’s a good thing.
I still maintain that it’s nothing to do with me ( or you if you’re not Australian) and I still object to the term colonisers because not only is it derogatory, it’s meant to be derogatory. No need for it. Leave the Australians to their own affairs.

Callistemon21

Cannana

I have lived and worked in Alice Springs as a midwife and was saddened and shocked by the poor health outcomes of indigenous women I witnessed there. They are strong and beauty women who need a Voice. I will vote yes because Aboriginal people need the dignity of recognition in the Parliament surely it has got to be a step forward. There is a lot of misinformation out there lots of crazy ideas. I have stopped listening to the no debate it doesn’t make as much sense to me as the yes debate in fact I just get annoyed.

I'm puzzled as to why the Senators and politicians from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are not already a voice in Parliament? Have they themselves lost touch with what their communities need? Or are they being ignored by successive governments?

Certainly, we must all have heard of Noel Pearson and Jacinta Price even over here in the UK so have their voices fallen on deaf ears?

And - what are the plans if the outcome is No?

Does the Constitution have to be altered in order to bring about change?

I hope there are alternative plans because we had none here!

Cannana

I have lived and worked in Alice Springs as a midwife and was saddened and shocked by the poor health outcomes of indigenous women I witnessed there. They are strong and beauty women who need a Voice. I will vote yes because Aboriginal people need the dignity of recognition in the Parliament surely it has got to be a step forward. There is a lot of misinformation out there lots of crazy ideas. I have stopped listening to the no debate it doesn’t make as much sense to me as the yes debate in fact I just get annoyed.

I'm puzzled as to why the Senators and politicians from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are not already a voice in Parliament? Have they themselves lost touch with what their communities need? Or are they being ignored by successive governments?

Certainly, we must all have heard of Noel Pearson and Jacinta Price even over here in the UK so have their voices fallen on deaf ears?

MaizieD

maddyone

Seriously some people need to learn about the people who have gone to live in Australia. Over the many years British, Chinese, African, European, and American people have emigrated to Australia. Australia, much like America, has people living there from just about every country in the world. The so called colonisation of Australia is not down merely to the British, and is certainly not down to anyone who is alive today. This has happened and it can’t be undone. It’s got nothing to do with those of us who are not Australian and they will decide for themselves what their future will be. It’s none of our business.

This in no way negates the fact that Australia was taken from its indigenous population, whose culture was despised by the occupiers, who were marginalised and ill treated, and who are still disadvantaged if they don't conform to the culture that has been imposed on them.

Yes

maddyone

Seriously some people need to learn about the people who have gone to live in Australia. Over the many years British, Chinese, African, European, and American people have emigrated to Australia. Australia, much like America, has people living there from just about every country in the world. The so called colonisation of Australia is not down merely to the British, and is certainly not down to anyone who is alive today. This has happened and it can’t be undone. It’s got nothing to do with those of us who are not Australian and they will decide for themselves what their future will be. It’s none of our business.

This in no way negates the fact that Australia was taken from its indigenous population, whose culture was despised by the occupiers, who were marginalised and ill treated, and who are still disadvantaged if they don't conform to the culture that has been imposed on them.

Cannana

I have lived and worked in Alice Springs as a midwife and was saddened and shocked by the poor health outcomes of indigenous women I witnessed there. They are strong and beauty women who need a Voice. I will vote yes because Aboriginal people need the dignity of recognition in the Parliament surely it has got to be a step forward. There is a lot of misinformation out there lots of crazy ideas. I have stopped listening to the no debate it doesn’t make as much sense to me as the yes debate in fact I just get annoyed.

There’s a lot of misinformation around any referendum, look at what both sides were saying in our own one here in the UK at the time we were going to vote on leaving the EU.
In your particular referendum it may mean that even a yes vote will do nothing to help poor outcomes for indigenous women. Here in the UK there is also the question of poorer outcomes for black women, we don’t know why, nature, nurture, culture or what, but there are black MP’s and Ministers in Parliament.It sounds as if the Australian yes/no
Question is a complicated question, but there as here it’s up to the people to decide.

If, as that mid-wife seems to suggest, it just means that maternal health Improves A Voice would be worth it.