The NHS this winter. “Let’s be careful out there”. Needs must it seems.

I can see this argument from all sides as my close family has 3physios, 3nurses and a GP in it and I know how hard they work, and they are frustrated at how underfunded the NHS is. They deserve every penny they earn.
On the other hand having been told the waiting list just to see orthopedic surgeon is 64 weeks and then be placed on another list for surgery, is simply ludicrous! My choices are to suffer in pain for 2years or pay for it to be done at private hospital.

I have not returned to choir singing and zumba dance because I'm very aware they involve being close to assorted people who's health and attitudes of care to others 'may vary'! It is a loss (I swim and walk more), but until there is a general willingness to avoid people while ill, I'll carry on.

A footballer is not going to be able to give you a hip replacement!

Allsorts

However much money is thrown into the bottomless pit won't be enought, too many people here now for it ever to be viable. If you feed a group of four adequately on 100 pounds, how would you feed a group of 100? Eventually it will private health care for those that can afford it and queues and chance for those that can't. .. It's already a postal lottery where you get the best treatment.
I'm not in favour of the strikes. Also, think the amount paid to footballers sickening, but that's up to the public for enabling it.

That’s fine. Just don’t moan because there aren’t enough doctors to look after us all then.
They’ll have gone to Australia!

nanna8

So you’d rather pay footballers and pop stars top money than Doctors? I can’t believe some of these posts. We welcome fully trained doctors from the UK with open arms and we pay properly. You get what you pay for.

Quite!
nanna8 is right. She lives in a country that values it’s doctors and doesn’t devalue them.

Oreo

nanna8

So you’d rather pay footballers and pop stars top money than Doctors? I can’t believe some of these posts. We welcome fully trained doctors from the UK with open arms and we pay properly. You get what you pay for.

Footballers aren’t funded by government ( tax payers).
It’s the clubs and football fans who contribute to the crazy incomes.That’s then taxed and comes back to the country.

If the doctors were paid better they,too, would pay more tax 'to come back to the country'.

The fact that they are paid directly with public money is irrelevant. Just about all the money circulating in the economy originates from the government, the sole issuer of our money. The money to pay the footballers originated with the government, it's just passed through several hands before it got to the footballers.

It's immaterial whether it is doctors' money or footballers' money, it all comes from the same source (which isn't 'the taxpayer')

(Banks 'create' money, too. All bank loans, whether to individuals or to businesses, are 'created' money, but they can only create it under licence from the government and the money they create is British sovereign currency. In other words, British government money)

nanna8

So you’d rather pay footballers and pop stars top money than Doctors? I can’t believe some of these posts. We welcome fully trained doctors from the UK with open arms and we pay properly. You get what you pay for.

Footballers aren’t funded by government ( tax payers).
It’s the clubs and football fans who contribute to the crazy incomes.That’s then taxed and comes back to the country.

However much money is thrown into the bottomless pit won't be enought, too many people here now for it ever to be viable. If you feed a group of four adequately on 100 pounds, how would you feed a group of 100? Eventually it will private health care for those that can afford it and queues and chance for those that can't. .. It's already a postal lottery where you get the best treatment.
I'm not in favour of the strikes. Also, think the amount paid to footballers sickening, but that's up to the public for enabling it.

So you’d rather pay footballers and pop stars top money than Doctors? I can’t believe some of these posts. We welcome fully trained doctors from the UK with open arms and we pay properly. You get what you pay for.

found, not 'gound' grrrrrr 😱

DiamondLily

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

Hmmm.
I gound this blog which describes all the 'reorganisations' which the NHS has been through. It's been in a pretty constant state of churn since the early 1970s. The last one was effected during the covid crisis. It has also been periodically underfunded.

It's no wonder it has problems.

I'd suggest that the next SoS for Health just gets it properly funded and the leaves it alone for a whike!

lowdownnhs.info/explainers/nhs-reorganisation-a-never-ending-story/

At least more money for doctors, especially junior doctors (who are of course not only the most junior doctors, but include some highly skilled medics right up to Senior Registrar) because improving the pay situation for these doctors might improve the retention of our doctors. It would be a beginning, but this government won’t do it, and I’m not even remotely convinced that the next government will either.

DiamondLily

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

MaizieD

The whole reason that the NHS is in chaos now is because 'they' haven't been throwing money at it.

It's been underfunded since 2010.

I agree with your post except I think the underfunding goes further back than 2010.
I also think that part of the chaos is due to the poor organisation within the NHS itself.
If the pay isn’t good enough to attract and retain staff in the wards and theatres, it isn’t going to be improved by appointing more and more management.
Then, there’s the state of some of the hospitals!

The whole reason that the NHS is in chaos now is because 'they' haven't been throwing money at it.

It's been underfunded since 2010.

Oh I don't know. I had to pay for a private op in 1985 (waiting list), I had to pay for another one in 2003 (waiting lists), and now I'm having to pay to see a private GP, if I want a service, and a private dentist, no NHS ones available.🙄

Whoever is in power, the NHS just stumbled from one crisis to another. It needs cross party reform, but no one does it. They just keep throwing money at it, to no avail.

We can't afford to lose any more doctors. They are able to take their skills anywhere unlike some other sectors and many are doing that.
They should be paid what they are worth to us.

I don't see any reason why the doctors should settle just because other health service workers have settled.

They want to be back where they were in 2010. Before the tories started destroying the NHS. That's why they're asking for 35%. I don't for one moment believe that they thought they would get it. It's a figure to negotiate from.

I think, in terms of their qualifications, training and job responsibility, compared with their peers they are lower paid workers. (So are teachers) I have sympathy with all public sector workers who have been badly treated by the tories.

Why should they expect huge percentages when others can’t have them?
Why don’t they settle at a realistic amount as the nurses did?
And no what they are asking is nowhere near realistic.
I reserve my sympathy for lower paid workers.
Yes, give them a raise but not something way out of line with others in the NHS.

My priorities are just fine thanks.

Maybe if they did a little less private work and put more into helping NHS patients the waiting lists for the NHS would be a bit shorter.

So it's fine to be castigating doctors for not sorting out the mess that the tories have made of the NHS over the past 13 years, Oreo?

I wonder how you'd feel if you'd had your pay frozen for a decade and were expected to work extra hard in deteriorating conditions to sort out the mess your employers have made of your workplace.

Or perhaps you feel that doctors have always been overpaid and don't deserve to have their remunerstion restored to pre austerity levels?

The vast majority of private work is carried out in private hospitals such as the Spire hospitals. There are other groups too. The NHS uses private hospitals for surgeries and other treatments, and so it would be foolish for any government to bite the hand that feeds it, so to speak. The government needs the facilities that private hospitals offer.
As for doctors working in the private sector, remember it is only consultants and well qualified doctors who can do so, and consultants work under contract to the government, and so they work whatever hours they negotiate and are only paid for those hours. So some might work two or three days a week (particularly parents who still have young children) whilst others may work full time, and indeed work overtime. Consultants can be called into the hospital at any time when they are off duty to see emergency, complex cases. This happened to me. The consultant came in to see me on a Sunday lunch time. He was in the middle of lunch at someone’s house, but left the lunch and came to the hospital.
I think many misunderstandings occur because people don’t actually know or understand how doctors contracts work. Please remember, we do not own medics. They are free to negotiate and sell their skills to whoever they wish, just as other occupations do.

I don't expect Labour to ban private medical care. They ensured it would continue in 1947 when setting up the NHS. And of course many Labour voters use it and, I dare say, Labour bigwigs.

Where there’s a will there’s a way!
So many things a Labour government needs to change.

It should be possible to exclude private work being carried out in NHS hospitals.