Lawrence Fox

MerylStreep

It appears that some are calling for Ofcom to close down GBNews.
Did anyone call for the bbc to be shut down when Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross left those disgusting voice messages on Andrew Sachs phone, no.
They got rid of Russel Brand but a slap on the wrist for their money earner, Jonathan Ross. A 12 week suspension.
I’m not defending Laurence Fox but I believe double standards should be called out.

I posted something similar on the other thread about GB News.

I've never watched it but double standards are being applied because some people loathe GB News and want it shut down anyway.

LovesBach

Iam64 please read what I have written, and not what you think I have written. I have not said the balance of power has gone too far ( I said it needed redressing) I have not said 'it is responsible for these behaviours', I have not dismissed the appalling figures for domestic violence, rape,and murder, I think Lawrence Fox's comments are deplorable, and I resent your saying that I am 'wrong' about statements I have not made. Having several men of all ages in my close family I have at times felt sympathy because they - being gentle men, brought up to treat everyone with respect, regardless of sex or age, have sometimes felt on the receiving end of harsh blanket criticisms, much as have many young women. I have over the past years in both work and society come across women whose general attitude to men is far from good, and if you haven't met any it doesn't mean they don't exist.

None of that means that sexism or misogyny is acceptable though. Each incident has to be judged on its own 'merits' and we can all speak up if we hear people making unacceptable blanket comments.

Whataboutery is always a weak argument, and suggests that a 'tit for tat' approach to the law can be appropriate when it really can't. A few women making sexist remarks or tweets doesn't mean that all women should have to put up with comments like Fox's.

It appears that some are calling for Ofcom to close down GBNews.
Did anyone call for the bbc to be shut down when Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross left those disgusting voice messages on Andrew Sachs phone, no.
They got rid of Russel Brand but a slap on the wrist for their money earner, Jonathan Ross. A 12 week suspension.
I’m not defending Laurence Fox but I believe double standards should be called out.

Pragmatist

Although I do not defend Fox, I do understand why he over reacted as he has issues himself.

Yes, he does.

But you can't say things like that on TV and expect such comments to be accepted because of those issues. As I'm sure he knows.

We may not agree with the standards that are set for public debate, but certain benchmarks are made and if you infringe them, then the outcome is inevitable.

Evans was provocative and dismissive - but she didn't break the guidelines, however insensitive she was being. He did.

Other people are interviewed who have 'issues' and they manage to contain themselves. It's possible to be critical and forceful without violating the rules.

And now, with the inevitable threats being made to Evans, and Fox 'standing by' his comments - the whole focus, which should have been on men's suicide statistics, is on them.

I'd like to have seen someone taking Evans to task for her heartless and inconsiderate comments, not her 'shaggability' status - which is totally irrelevant.

Iam64 please read what I have written, and not what you think I have written. I have not said the balance of power has gone too far ( I said it needed redressing) I have not said 'it is responsible for these behaviours', I have not dismissed the appalling figures for domestic violence, rape,and murder, I think Lawrence Fox's comments are deplorable, and I resent your saying that I am 'wrong' about statements I have not made. Having several men of all ages in my close family I have at times felt sympathy because they - being gentle men, brought up to treat everyone with respect, regardless of sex or age, have sometimes felt on the receiving end of harsh blanket criticisms, much as have many young women. I have over the past years in both work and society come across women whose general attitude to men is far from good, and if you haven't met any it doesn't mean they don't exist.

Fox is a creep and he’s a rubbish (was presenter) guest on GB News. Wooton has been sacked from the Daily Mail. Hope GB News give him his marching orders too. He’s always smirking over something.

Her misandry re mèns suicide OK with you then.
I don’t think anyone has said or implied that. AE can be judged on her own merits and people can express opinions on that, but it has nothing to do with Fox’s remarks.
7800 people have complained apparently and Wooton has lost his job at the Mail online.

Never heard of Ava Evans
But we have now!!

Pragmatist

Both Lawrence and Ava were in the wrong. Its not about who was most wrong. And if Lawrence is losing his mind - well we are back to Men’s mental health. Lets stay there.

Her misandry re mèns suicide OK with you then.

So what we basically have is a man berating a woman for not being "shagable"and a woman who doesn't want to discuss men's mental health and suicide figures.
If you look at it it is simply the same old judgements.
Women are judged by their sexual attraction and men are judged by their ability to cope.(stiff upper lip and all that)
And this is on a news programme. No wonder no one watches any more.
Lawrence Fox is an unbearable attention seeker
Never heard of Ava Evans
Quite like Geoff Norcott who has been the only right wing comedian and funny about it, but has adjusted his ideas somewhat.

Anniebach

Brings back a memory over 65 years ago. Younger brother and
sister having an argument, she certainly let rip with her tongue,
he lashed out and hit her , never had they seen such behaviour in the family home.

So sorry that you witnessed domestic abuse at such an early age ‘Anniebach*”

Of course he should be suspended.

I actually doubt he thinks otherwise. He knows the score.

The Ofcom rules are regularly referred to by him.

Forgive me I haven't re read the new replies on this thread (rl getting in the way haha)

Begs the question why play to AE tune?

Perhaps he wants to go on holiday but GBeebies (thanks Boz) wouldn't give him the time off?

I agree with both of Casdon's posts on this page.

Fox is being suspended because in a TV debate he brought up the question of a woman's 'shaggability' and whether he would have sex with her in response to something she said in that debate. The debate was about suicide, not about who he would or would not honour with his sexual attentions (in his dreams).

Whatever AE said or did not say on her own social media pages is irrelevant. If she makes inappropriate tweets, let people judge her on that, but they do not make her fair game to be dismissed in that way when she is doing her job (however badly) as a journalist and commentator.

It is not 'unequal treatment' to say that. If AE, or any other woman, made sexually inappropriate comments about someone in the course of their work I would believe that they too should be sanctioned. I don't think that anyone on here is saying otherwise. How that can be interpreted as double standards re Fox is beyond me.

Not sure how we manage that though, I agree he seems deeply troubled but so was Brand.

Although I do not defend Fox, I do understand why he over reacted as he has issues himself.

What equality - positive discrimination is inequality

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

Pragmatist

Both Lawrence and Ava were in the wrong. Its not about who was most wrong. And if Lawrence is losing his mind - well we are back to Men’s mental health. Lets stay there.

But her being wrong, in a debate in which she was expressing a point of view he didn’t agree with, is irrelevant. There is never an excuse for sexually directed and offensive behaviour personally attacking somebody else. It was beyond ‘crass’ as you described it. It’s indefensible, which is why he’s been suspended - GB News were correct to do that.

There is never an excuse for sexually directed and offensive behaviour personally attacking somebody else

On this we agree which is why I have repeatedly posted that Ava Evans should be called to account for her behaviour on social media.

Asking for equal treatment is not in anyway condoning Laurence Fox.

I’m presuming what she said was in a personal capacity though. His outburst was on TV, and it was said in the course of his employment. I think that’s the big difference. GB News can’t sanction any guest who they don’t employ for expressing a personal opinion on social media, but they have to take action against their employees. Whether it’s right or not for people to say exactly what they like on social media when talking in a personal capacity is a whole other debate.

Casdon

Pragmatist

Both Lawrence and Ava were in the wrong. Its not about who was most wrong. And if Lawrence is losing his mind - well we are back to Men’s mental health. Lets stay there.

But her being wrong, in a debate in which she was expressing a point of view he didn’t agree with, is irrelevant. There is never an excuse for sexually directed and offensive behaviour personally attacking somebody else. It was beyond ‘crass’ as you described it. It’s indefensible, which is why he’s been suspended - GB News were correct to do that.

There is never an excuse for sexually directed and offensive behaviour personally attacking somebody else

On this we agree which is why I have repeatedly posted that Ava Evans should be called to account for her behaviour on social media.

Asking for equal treatment is not in anyway condoning Laurence Fox.

Brings back a memory over 65 years ago. Younger brother and
sister having an argument, she certainly let rip with her tongue,
he lashed out and hit her , never had they seen such behaviour in the family home.

I don’t know any of the women you refer to LovesBach.
A woman is murdered every week by a man, often a partner, especially at time of separation
Women are subject to domestic abuse at a much higher rate than men
Women are subjected to the kind of misogynistic abuse shown repeatedly by Fox, Tate and other men
Suggesting that equality has gone too far or is somehow responsible for those behaviours is just wrong

I too feel sympathy for many men nowdays; the balance of 'power' did need to be redressed, but the attitude of so many women now is that men cannot say, or do, anything acceptable.

Pragmatist

Both Lawrence and Ava were in the wrong. Its not about who was most wrong. And if Lawrence is losing his mind - well we are back to Men’s mental health. Lets stay there.

But her being wrong, in a debate in which she was expressing a point of view he didn’t agree with, is irrelevant. There is never an excuse for sexually directed and offensive behaviour personally attacking somebody else. It was beyond ‘crass’ as you described it. It’s indefensible, which is why he’s been suspended - GB News were correct to do that.

Fox took a break from the media in 2020 he said to help his mh. He talked about feeling depressed and not sleeping
Maybe another poster will start a thread on the issue of male mental health. It’s an important topic.
So is the question raised by the OP about men and their penis

Doodledog

*Or just let the thread wander where it will?*
By all means, but then why suggest that we wouldn’t be talking about suicide if not for Fox’s comments? That’s not why he made them, and they weren’t about suicide. The reason he was suspended is because of his sexist comments. Why are people being so tetchy?

Sorry Ddog if I came across as being so tetchy .
I assume the comment was aimed at me , as it was in answer to my question?

I would say, as you pointed out earlier, many discussions have been aired about male suicide.
Whether they have individually been discussed in the past I dont know.

But, I agreed with Annibach that LF comments propelled the subject matter to the top of the media agenda for a couple of days.
Which led to us discussing here.

I also pointed out that as the op focused on misogyny etc ect maybe those of us that wanted to address male suicide as opposed to LF misogyny, might look at it through the op's perspective a little more.

As I see it, people have all kinds of reactions to information, and saying them doesnt dilute the thrust of the debate.

Both Lawrence and Ava were in the wrong. Its not about who was most wrong. And if Lawrence is losing his mind - well we are back to Men’s mental health. Lets stay there.