Lawrence Fox

I agree what he said was appalling but whatever happened to free speech in this country. Unless he used a swear word then giving publicity to this is plain silly. By the way no one seems to be reporting what the female in question said about male suicide.

Sex isn’t the end all and B all, suicide is

Watching the BBC Politics Live discussion that I understand triggered this outburst, I do understand why men would feel annoyed at the way it went. I'm a woman and I felt annoyed.

Comedian Geoff Norcott was trying to raise issues that affect men's health particularly the high levels of suicide of men under the age of 50 while Ava Santini Evans and Baroness Frances O'Grady both tried to divert the discussion to women's issues.

Here at 37:00 minutes if you want to watch:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001qwx4/politics-live-25092023

That doesn't excuse Fox's appalling behaviour in the slightest (or that of Dan Wootton who sat smirking in the studio).

I didn't watch the whole exchange between Wootton and Fox.

Did Fox say similar things about O'Grady?

Men making derogatory comments about women and women doing the same about men - they come from the same stable... offensive (deliberately) and sexist, arrogant and (usually) self-regarding.

Fox does appear to want to push the boundaries.

It it's true that the biggest killer of men under 50 is suicide, then it really is something that needs investigating - and to be so dismissive of the idea of a minister-for-men is, to say the least, rather insulting. It may or may not be a good idea - but each of those suicides will leave a grieving family in its wake.

I'm not sure Fox is the best person to champion the cause, though.

I watched the relevant bit of this broadcast and was also struck by the unwillingness of the women on the programme to listen to what was being said. We do not make women's lives better by turning a blind eye to the problems that men face. The suicide stats are awful and shocking. The fact that the women on the programme were doing the raised eyebrow/body language that indicated contempt towards the speaker was unacceptable.

I am all for women aiming for equality, and also for dealing with sexual harassment, but we cannot ignore that men often have difficult lives. Sometimes I worry about my GSs - about how men are put down and seen as a threat until proven otherwise. It must be so hard to bring them up to me decent citizens, and also to maintain their self-esteem.

It is true that most men are the perpetrators of crime and violence, but it is also true that most men are not.

There had to be a moment in time when women stood up for themselves (and still should do) and part of that involved pointing out the inequalities and the entrenched attitudes that were held by society and many men. We are getting past that now and should have the decency to think about those things that adversely impinge on men.

As for the ghastly Fox - he is always worth ignoring.

Anniebach

Sex isn’t the end all and B all, suicide is

Well said

Luckygirl3

I watched the relevant bit of this broadcast and was also struck by the unwillingness of the women on the programme to listen to what was being said. We do not make women's lives better by turning a blind eye to the problems that men face. The suicide stats are awful and shocking. The fact that the women on the programme were doing the raised eyebrow/body language that indicated contempt towards the speaker was unacceptable.

I am all for women aiming for equality, and also for dealing with sexual harassment, but we cannot ignore that men often have difficult lives. Sometimes I worry about my GSs - about how men are put down and seen as a threat until proven otherwise. It must be so hard to bring them up to me decent citizens, and also to maintain their self-esteem.

It is true that most men are the perpetrators of crime and violence, but it is also true that most men are not.

There had to be a moment in time when women stood up for themselves (and still should do) and part of that involved pointing out the inequalities and the entrenched attitudes that were held by society and many men. We are getting past that now and should have the decency to think about those things that adversely impinge on men.

I agree. I have a son and grandsons, and I'm finding these "anti men" tirades tiresome.

Not all men are bad, not all women are good.

Men and women need each other - we are equal, but both have different strengths and weaknesses.🙂

I can't stand Fox, but the two women didn't exactly help their cause.🙄

Imo Fox was wrong, but she was wrong-er
(sorry, I'm not making light of the subject, or being fasicious just being silly).
So far pretty fair posts, (Thank you everyone)
long may it last

Fox was rude and insulting. Any sympathy I may have felt towards him in the past has completely evaporated. This puts him beyond the pall. I suspect countless will agree with me.

Laurence Fox was wrong, there is a backstory though as the lady’s Twitter feed shows.

She was wrong, he was unprofessional. Only one of those things is relevant here.

BBC News - GB News suspends Laurence Fox over comments about journalist Ava Evans
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66932538
For anyone who didn't hear what Evans said here is a clip. She disgracefully, imo, dismisses the concern about male suicides and deserves criticism for that. Not the Fox brand of criticism though as he has now diverted the discussion away from this very serious issue.

Would this very serious issue have been discussed if Fox hadn’t
said anything?

Is it any wonder that Andrew Tate has millions of followers.
I’ve been watching this de- masculation of men for many years.
This is only getting worse.

Good point Anniebach unfortunately it does take something outrageous to happen sometimes, to reach further into the public consciousness.

How heartless does a person have to be to turn suicide into a competition between the sexes?
Or use it to further ones tv career.
She does have form in this regard.

I thought the OGrady women was far worse; constantly trying to turn the conversation to her own agenda of women's issues.

He’s an idiot, one of the first rules of journalism is not to personalise the debate. Whatever other people said, they didn’t make it about an individual, whereas his comments were very personal, sexist and offensive. He needs to start engaging his brain before he opens his mouth.

Anniebach

Would this very serious issue have been discussed if Fox hadn’t
said anything?

It has been discussed - by the BBC, The Guardian, on ITVX, the WHO (last month), in some depth.

In 2015, Professor Green - a rapper / songwriter - appeared in a documentary on male suicide. I'm not a fan of rap - but watched the programme which was very moving.

I think Fox was right to be angered - but completely wrong to suggest that Evans wasn't worth 'shagging' because of her dismissive attitude... what in heck's name has sex got to do with it?

Now the focus will be on him and the right to free speech when it should be on the awful statistics.

Of course you're right, casdon but his crass remarks are the less of two evils by far
The discussion should surely centre on why he had such a visceral reaction to what the woman said?

X post dickens just to pick up on your thoughts about free speech taking over the subject
It hasn't yet on this thread, and I hope it doesnt, but it could be muted that without free speech the topic of male suicide may not be able to be spoken of, in the future, if the pov of that particular woman is held by the cancel culture to be important.

We can already see how women are being affected by the pressure of an ideology.

Suicide amongst young people is very worrying and has been highlighted by the BBC many times.
How anyone can try to derail this subject to focus on their own issues is beyond me.
Laurence Fox behaves like a smutty teenage boy with his comments.

AGAA4 can I ask who do you think has "derailed the discussion to focus on their own issues"?

The subject being discussed was suicide by men, why did Ms
Evans think women had a more difficult time during Covid was
in any way related to suicide by men ?