Lawrence Fox

Doodledog

*Yes, DD, - I agree... I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't impressed with Evan's attitude.*

At the risk of dragging this out (particularly when we agree ) we shouldn't have to make that clear. Whenever something bad happens to a woman it seems as though we (not getting at you in particular) have to say 'not all men are like that', talk about our lovely husbands and sons, and look for possible reasons why the woman might have deserved it. Or worse, in some circumstances to suggest that she might be lying.

There is nothing wrong with having a separate conversation about women being unfair to men, or calling them to account if they make unacceptable comments, but they should be separate conversations, IMO.

... point taken.

I was on the defensive!

If I were discussing this, in abstract, I would be making the same point.

I've just read that Evans also twitters-on about men in a derogatory manner including, apparently, their 'shag-rating'. I assume it's true as it can be verified in print but I have no intention of trawling through the tweets of the twitterati community to find out. It's not unusual for women to indulge in misandry, I've heard it, so quite prepared to believe she did. I don't know if it's bravado or a genuine hatred of men - or even wanting to appear like 'one of the lads'... "look guys, I'm well into this sexual innuendo malarkey" - whatever, and it's equally nasty. But it still doesn't let Fox off the hook!

In the past, when I was a Twit member of the Twitter fraternity, I read some pretty nasty stuff, from both men and women (but mostly men) so quit the site.

Misogynist males denigrating women by reminding them - in various guises - about their ultimate sexual power over them... either by threatening them with assault, or telling them they're not worth assaulting, is as old as the hills. The fact that women are joining in with this vilification - this 'locker-room banter' in an effort to even the score (or for whatever reason) is very depressing. The 'cure' for misogyny is not misandry. The only answer is emotional intelligence.

A third presenter has been suspended, apparently. The news is just breaking, but it seems to be connected to the Fox incident. Apparently he criticised bosses and said they were afraid of 'the woke mob'.

Given that this is a channel that says it represents 'free speech', this makes me wonder if there is something else going on. Or maybe the channel is just growing up a bit and realising that it can't just ignore laws and public sensibilities, however 'anti-woke' it wants to be.

Pragmatist

Jo Brand says “why not use battery acid instead of milkshake and throw it on Nigel Farage” - Ofcom look into this and do nothing.

Its the double standards here - why do those on the left of politics get away with things and those on the right are demonised.

I’m sorry to have to repeat this, but your comment is irrelevant Pragmatist.

You are prejudging what the Ofcom outcome will be for Fox and Wootton, because I don’t see how you can claim that there are double standards otherwise?

Thank you, everyone, for this fair-minded discussion.
The whole affair, to me, shows that GB News is a thoroughly unpleasant channel, not worthy of respect or viewing.

Jo Brand says “why not use battery acid instead of milkshake and throw it on Nigel Farage” - Ofcom look into this and do nothing.

Its the double standards here - why do those on the left of politics get away with things and those on the right are demonised.

Casdon

lemsip

on gb news now is news hour with anne diamond and stephen dixon. have a look

Why, are they interviewing the GB News chief executive? I just heard him on BBC News on the radio saying exactly what we have said on this thread about the comments made by Fox being completely unacceptable (his words).

Well, I should hope he would say they weren't acceptable.
Why wouldn't he?
When I last looked the channel had perfectly normal people airing a selection of perfectly normal pov. From both sides of the political spectrum.
More variety than seen on the the other channels, by and large.

Why does that put a different complexion on things?

If AE's tweets are unacceptable (I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to the case) then she should be judged on that. There is, however, a huge difference between personal tweets and an appearance on a TV channel as a presenter. Her tweets should not be used to excuse an entirely unacceptable and sexist tirade from someone who is being paid to debate something in public. Again, if AE moved the debate onto different territory she should have been called on that and asked to stick to the point - her 'shaggability' should not have come into it.

I am neither excusing or attacking her behaviour, as in the context of Fox's attack, I don't see it as relevant. On a thread about male suicide I would see things very differently. I wouldn't see AE's 'shaggability' as relevant then either, but I may well say that her attitude to male suicide was wrong and her comments insensitive.

Ava Evans has often tweeted and posted on social media about men in a derogatory way, including whether or not they were/are shaggable

That does rather put a different complexion on things and something not mentioned in the News stories I have seen. I dislike Laurence Fox immensely and am glad to see his views not being shown on a news channel (ditto Dan Wooton) but I'd have liked to see him go with something where boundaries are being crossed on both sides. I am sure you wouldn't have to look far to find something to get rid of either of them.

I watched the clip of the discussion with Geoff Norcott and I think the women did what people with entrenched ideas about something do. I think they did themselves a disservice rather than promoting their cause.

Evans ought to get her facts right about male suicide. Fox was a crass idiot and should be barred from GBNews. But I suspect he regards all publicity as good publicity so the solution is to stop discussing it. Unfortunately it generates column inches and airtime for paid journalists and pundits who are taking advantage of the issue.

Yes, DD, - I agree... I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't impressed with Evan's attitude.

At the risk of dragging this out (particularly when we agree ) we shouldn't have to make that clear. Whenever something bad happens to a woman it seems as though we (not getting at you in particular) have to say 'not all men are like that', talk about our lovely husbands and sons, and look for possible reasons why the woman might have deserved it. Or worse, in some circumstances to suggest that she might be lying.

There is nothing wrong with having a separate conversation about women being unfair to men, or calling them to account if they make unacceptable comments, but they should be separate conversations, IMO.

Doodledog

*It's similar to the apology a spouse makes after hitting his / her partner... "look what you made me do"...*
Indeed. Or when a child is forced to apologise for something they think was perfectly acceptable.

To be clear (as politicians like to say) - I'm not defending Evan's attitude or comments which were (IMO) blasé and indicated a complete lack of both empathy and understanding about a very real problem.
I understand what you are saying (and agree), but I don’t see why we should have to qualify disapproval of Fox’s comments with condemnation of Evans’. Why can’t we just say that they were out of order? Had he raised his voice, or even sworn it would make sense to cite provocation, but there is no excuse or mitigation for his misogyny. None.

Yes, DD, - I agree... I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't impressed with Evan's attitude.

It's similar to the apology a spouse makes after hitting his / her partner... "look what you made me do"...
Indeed. Or when a child is forced to apologise for something they think was perfectly acceptable.

To be clear (as politicians like to say) - I'm not defending Evan's attitude or comments which were (IMO) blasé and indicated a complete lack of both empathy and understanding about a very real problem.
I understand what you are saying (and agree), but I don’t see why we should have to qualify disapproval of Fox’s comments with condemnation of Evans’. Why can’t we just say that they were out of order? Had he raised his voice, or even sworn it would make sense to cite provocation, but there is no excuse or mitigation for his misogyny. None.

What the majority on this thread have said

lemsip

on gb news now is news hour with anne diamond and stephen dixon. have a look

Why, are they interviewing the GB News chief executive? I just heard him on BBC News on the radio saying exactly what we have said on this thread about the comments made by Fox being completely unacceptable (his words).

on gb news now is news hour with anne diamond and stephen dixon. have a look

Callistemon21

It was a qualified apology.

Yes.

The "I'm sorry - but" apology.

The one people - not just men, or Fox - make, when they realise they have to make an apology to retain their credibility, which is structured to make sure you understand that it was, basically, your fault.

It's similar to the apology a spouse makes after hitting his / her partner... "look what you made me do"...

To be clear (as politicians like to say) - I'm not defending Evan's attitude or comments which were (IMO) blasé and indicated a complete lack of both empathy and understanding about a very real problem.

His apology could not have been extended to keep his job .

Sounds as if he expected a different outcome.

lemsip

latest;
Laurence Fox apologises for 'demeaning' Ava Evans comments then takes another swipe at journalist - before slamming GB News for 'throwing me under the bus'

throwing me under the bus
Oh dear, bit dramatic, isn't it?

Ah well, he is an actoor, dahling.

latest;
Laurence Fox apologises for 'demeaning' Ava Evans comments then takes another swipe at journalist - before slamming GB News for 'throwing me under the bus'

He has apologised, only he knows if he has regrets, no one else can know .

It was a qualified apology.

Anniebach

Are actors not capable of extending an apology ?

Of course, but doing it grudgingly after the event isn’t the same as realising immediately that you’ve gone too far and rescinding your words. He came across to me as apologising because he’d been told he had to, and it was a carefully crafted apology.

He has apologised - for what it’s worth!

Are actors not capable of extending an apology ?