Charitable status and private schools

Aveline

I still don't understand how people who's children go to private schools are somehow subsidised by those who don't. Surely it's the other way around. Private school parents pay their taxes which cover public sector schools yet their children don't take up spaces in them. Hence they pay twice.

People without children pay for schools too.

Joseann

I think Labour will need to think very carefully about how they implement this 20% VAT on school fees when they come into power. Private schools aren't daft, and bursars are already drawing up contingency plans which could see a Labour government shaking its head.
Many private schools might well be forced to exit the Government’s expensive pension scheme (TPS) and look for cheaper alternatives. That would be a big hit to take and counter productive for them if schools switched to private pension schemes. Who could blame the schools, as businesses, looking for ways to soften the financial blow?

A number of private schools are already exiting TPS.

Offset that against the VAT saved by the schools having charitable status and it is not surprising that Starmer knows it is really not worth pursuing, either politically or financially.

Starmer has only 'u turned' on the removal of charitable status.

He's still going to enforce VAT where applicable. I'm sure that his team has worked out the implications and see it as worthwhile.

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Children can be very cruel.

Yes, and to witness your child or grandchild being a victim is totally heartbreaking

My heart goes out to any child in this situation.
I think sometimes a teacher knows that a pupil is having a tough time, but assumes he or she is coping, which isn't the case.

ronib

Children can be very cruel.

Yes, and to witness your child or grandchild being a victim is totally heartbreaking

Children can be very cruel.

ronib

Why not wear secondhand? It is more fashionable to have a sustainable lifestyle than a fad consumer approach - good values are part of education too.
What are the right trainers these days?

Whilst I agree with you in principle, children can be very cruel to others who haven’t got the right stuff

As for trainers, depends on the child’s group vegan or not, sporty or not, but they know.

Why not wear secondhand? It is more fashionable to have a sustainable lifestyle than a fad consumer approach - good values are part of education too.
What are the right trainers these days?

ronib

Re school uniforms- some primary schools and at least one public school run second hand school uniforms at a fraction of the original price. Definitely worth the time and effort to set up.

Why should those who are already marked out due to not having the latest Smiggle bag, lunch box, the right trainers etc. have to wear second hand uniform?

A school uniform fund is surely a better way forward.

Re school uniforms- some primary schools and at least one public school run second hand school uniforms at a fraction of the original price. Definitely worth the time and effort to set up.

In Australia, around 30% of primary and 40% of secondary school children attend a private, or independent, school. School fees vary widely, depending on the type of private school and the different sectors that govern them. Catholic schools generally cost less than independent schools where families can pay fees of more than $40,000 per year.

Despite the term “independent school”, all schools in Australia receive government funding. On average, Catholic schools receive around 75% and independent schools around 45% of their funding from state and federal governments.

theconversation.com/going-to-private-school-wont-make-a-difference-to-your-kids-academic-scores-175638

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

I'm sure someone has said this before, but I doubt very much if the taxes paid by parents with children in private education, pay anywhere near enough to significantly contribute to the cost of the 93% of children who are state educated.

I should imagine that the majority of parents who send their children to fee paying schools are paying upwards of 40% tax, which puts their income above that which they can claim child benefit also.

I am all for increasing standards and discipline in all schools but adamantly oppose to the closing or change of status of fee paying schools.

Well, of course the taxes paid by parents whose children go to fee-paying schools will not fund state schools - no-one suggested that.

However, they will be helping to fund state education, as all taxpayers do, but by not taking up the option of state education for their children, they thereby save the state the approximate £7,500 per child pa cost of educating them too.
A double payment.

Offset that against the VAT saved by the schools having charitable status and it is not surprising that Starmer knows it is really not worth pursuing, either politically or financially.

I think Labour will need to think very carefully about how they implement this 20% VAT on school fees when they come into power. Private schools aren't daft, and bursars are already drawing up contingency plans which could see a Labour government shaking its head.
Many private schools might well be forced to exit the Government’s expensive pension scheme (TPS) and look for cheaper alternatives. That would be a big hit to take and counter productive for them if schools switched to private pension schemes. Who could blame the schools, as businesses, looking for ways to soften the financial blow?

MaizieD

I'm sure someone has said this before, but I doubt very much if the taxes paid by parents with children in private education, pay anywhere near enough to significantly contribute to the cost of the 93% of children who are state educated.

I should imagine that the majority of parents who send their children to fee paying schools are paying upwards of 40% tax, which puts their income above that which they can claim child benefit also.

I am all for increasing standards and discipline in all schools but adamantly oppose to the closing or change of status of fee paying schools.

Callistemon21 the cost of school uniforms is something I have consistently moaned about.

The two primary schools and attached pre-schools that my four youngest GC attend have uniforms with logos only available from one supplier.

This supplier also provides uniforms for many other primary and senior schools in the area. Blazers, Ties, Jumpers etc., along with all PE Kits for both senior and primary.

I added up that for the primary school GC it was approx £100 excluding shoes, socks, trainers. For the pre-schoolers it was £50, senior schools are over £100.

There should be a uniform fund available for those on low incomes and benefits.

I'm sure someone has said this before, but I doubt very much if the taxes paid by parents with children in private education, pay anywhere near enough to significantly contribute to the cost of the 93% of children who are state educated.

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

At the moment you have the ridiculous situation where parents are having in some cases to do 3 jobs just to get food on the table or resorting to food banks to feed their children.

Their tax is subsidising parents who can afford to pay fees of on average £15000 for each child to attend school.

That isn’t morally right or fair.

The taxes paid by wealthier parents whose children attend fee-paying schools are helping to fund state schools for those children and offset the savings in VAT.

The private schools also fund places for pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds.

I think Starmer has probably done his calculations and realise this is not something worth pursuing.

I doubt that, if someone is struggling and having to go to food bank to feed their children, they would be paying very much tax at all.

I'd be more concerned about the rising costs of school uniforms for state school pupils.

Germanshepherdsmum

It didn’t happen in my day, nor did it happen in my son’s. Has this utopian system ever existed in state schools?

Not that I have noticed.

One of my GC has just been removed from school permanently by their parents due to constant bullying and the attitude of the headteacher and their inaction towards the bullies.

Police have been involved, unfortunately the little shits committing these offences several of which were criminal come from a violent criminal family so are treated with kid gloves 🤬🤬🤬

Whitewavemark2

At the moment you have the ridiculous situation where parents are having in some cases to do 3 jobs just to get food on the table or resorting to food banks to feed their children.

Their tax is subsidising parents who can afford to pay fees of on average £15000 for each child to attend school.

That isn’t morally right or fair.

The taxes paid by wealthier parents whose children attend fee-paying schools are helping to fund state schools for those children and offset the savings in VAT.

The private schools also fund places for pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds.

I think Starmer has probably done his calculations and realise this is not something worth pursuing.

Nannarose parents of children at private schools get no reduction as their children are not taking up places they could as their parents pays taxes and school fees. They are actually helping the public sector schools by reducing potential numbers.

It didn’t happen in my day, nor did it happen in my son’s. Has this utopian system ever existed in state schools?

Germanshepherdsmum

So what will be done with the perpetually disruptive children and those who don’t have the ability to keep up, thereby holding back the brightest?

In a properly run education system, they are educated properly, according to their needs. And believe me, I know it's not properly run at the moment!

PS: My son was passed over for a place in a representative (regional) sports team. OK, it happens. We did as always, we congratulated the boy who got in (it was a particular position) and who happened to go to a local private school, His mum said 'It's what we pay for'.
We agreed that they obviously didn't buy sportmanship!
She then had the cheek to approach me (at work) to buy raffle tickets for her son's school sports tour. Honestly, I have bought tickets and sponsored things for all sorts of causes not dear to my heart - as have we all. That was the only one I refused and she went off in a huff!

Oh, and of course, most private school parents aren't like that!

Is it a matter of voting Tory to keep your kids ahead of those of poorer parents?

1. You don't pay 'twice' for private education, because you pay taxes in order to educate all of the children in the society you live in. I want to live in a well educated society.
2. Some private schools offer an excellent eduction in some fields. They are not necessarily 'better' in many respects in the long run.
3. I actually don't care what sacrifices anyone made to send their kids to a private school - their choice.
4. Parents in the state sector make 'sacrifices' to spend time and money supporting their schools and communities (and I don't expect anyone to sympathise!)
5. Many parts of Britain are broken, including some parts of state education. We should mend it.