Charitable status and private schools

But I would also hate what Neo-Communism (a creep towards totalitarianism) could do to us should they take over Labour

I doubt that would happen DaisyAnne, particularly under Starmer and his Cabinet, although I do respect your point. For many, the current Labour Party is far too centrist. Of course, for me they’re not left enough - but that’s just me!

DaisyAnneReturns

Aveline

How are they subsidising private schools? Parents are paying taxes and their children not taking up places in public schools.

I dont think truth comes into it fir some Aveline.

I have still not decided whether to support Labour into power in the next election or not. I hate what the Neo-Liberals have done to the country after taking over the the Conservative Party. But I would also hate what Neo-Communism (a creep towards totalitarianism) could do to us should they take over Labour.

dar what happened between you post timed 9.23 and this one? I read them as being in direct contradiction, but perhaps I’m wrong?

fir for

Aveline

How are they subsidising private schools? Parents are paying taxes and their children not taking up places in public schools.

I dont think truth comes into it fir some Aveline.

I have still not decided whether to support Labour into power in the next election or not. I hate what the Neo-Liberals have done to the country after taking over the the Conservative Party. But I would also hate what Neo-Communism (a creep towards totalitarianism) could do to us should they take over Labour.

Joseann

Another knock on I've thought of is all the under 5's (lots of them), at independent schools who receive "childcare". Will they have to pay extra? Then so will all the other nursery children in the land? Impossible.

Even the pre-schools attached to our local primary schools charge parents.

According to Bridget Phillipson ‘ We can press ahead with ending the tax breaks relatively quickly and then put that money into delivering better outcomes for children’.

Another knock on I've thought of is all the under 5's (lots of them), at independent schools who receive "childcare". Will they have to pay extra? Then so will all the other nursery children in the land? Impossible.

Figures are one thing but actual knowledge of independent schools are another, I agree😁
It’s a complicated subject with loads of knock on type consequences.

It us already the case that charities are not exempt, because of their charity status, from paying VAT. They can claim various reliefs and concessions, however.

Independent schools are exempt from the requirement to charge VAT on school fees because the provision of education by an 'eligible body' is an 'exempt' supply for VAT purposes under current VAT legislation. This legislation covers private tuition, Univerities, etc.

It seems to me that Starmer has and is carrying out due diligence on this, while, in the press and social media, prejudice, as always, often overrides thruth.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/12/the-guardian-view-on-private-schools-motors-of-unfairness

Interesting Guardian article.

The VAT scheme will undoubtedly affect small independent schools badly.
Most of the big ones I k ow have been discussing this for 6 or 7 years to find ways to mitigate any problems to their numbers. The thing is, it would probably take 5 years or so to implement.

Oreo

Joseann looks like somebody is trying to no platform you😉

It isn’t a good look for Starmer to row back on promises so early on.

Ha ha! That's often the case on this subject Oreo. I'm actually fine with *MaizieD" discussing all the figures part, (that's her speciality and she is knowledgeable enough). It's the posters who have never set foot in an independent school, yet seem to know all about the workings!

How are they subsidising private schools? Parents are paying taxes and their children not taking up places in public schools.

GrannyGravy13

Sir Starmer has seen the light and has decided to leave fee paying schools alone, well done 👏👏👏

Not if the VAT scheme he’s proposing goes ahead.

MaizieD

I seen to remember a voucher scheme being offered undervtha Thatcher government. What happened to that?

I've worked in a state school in a deprived area. Actually, we liked our children, but some certainly had 'attitudes' that the private sector would find problematic... especially if they had a large number to deal with. State sector is obliged to take these children, I wonder how the private sector would cope if they had the same obligation.

They and their parents would be warned about their behaviour.If discipline still failed they would be suspended and maybe expelled.They wouldn’t have the obligation of continuing to educate them that state schools have.I’m not surprised that teachers enjoy their jobs at private schools.

*At the moment you have the ridiculous situation where parents are having in some cases to do 3 jobs just to get food on the table or resorting to food banks to feed their children.

Their tax is subsidising parents who can afford to pay fees of on average £15000 for each child to attend school.

That isn’t morally right or fair.*

This!
I have never minded paying tax in order to contribute to a fair, equitable society. But I do object to part of my taxes subsidising an elitist education system for a tiny minority of the country. Perhaps, if allchildren were educated within a state system that truly reflects the society in which we all live, there would be greater empathy and understanding amongst citizens. My personal opinion is that private education should be abolished completely - unpopular with some posters, I’m sure. I think it would serve all children well - both rich and poor - to be educated together.

Sir Starmer has seen the light and has decided to leave fee paying schools alone, well done 👏👏👏

Joseann looks like somebody is trying to no platform you😉

It isn’t a good look for Starmer to row back on promises so early on.

So Vat on Private Schools, so will they do that to University fees as well? Same diffence?
And the Royal Ballet School and others for example where most of the pupils receive bursaries?
And as boarding schools come under "childcare", how will VAT there be fair all round?

We put our children into the Private sector at Junior level as the local schools were not the best. We struggle to pay the fees but I feel it was worth it. Only did it until they were 11 as we wanted the good foundation to see them into the senior sector.
So No not every parent is Rich and we by no means the only ones to do this, it was quite common in our era about 20 years ago.

So Vat on Private Schools, so will they do that to University fees as well? Same diffence? Although didn't they bring in Uni fees?

I seen to remember a voucher scheme being offered undervtha Thatcher government. What happened to that?

I've worked in a state school in a deprived area. Actually, we liked our children, but some certainly had 'attitudes' that the private sector would find problematic... especially if they had a large number to deal with. State sector is obliged to take these children, I wonder how the private sector would cope if they had the same obligation.

I am a bit disappointed by your response to vouchers. It would make private schools less elitist and gain a wider social mix. Also it would make more places available in the sought after state grammar type schools.
Not all state schools have problem children- some single sex state schools are very focused.

oops *be not need

I am not delighted or bothered either way because the actual benefit of charitable status to schools isn't very much anyway.
I just think too much time has been spent promising this when even my pea brain with no legal training knew it would need nigh on impossible.

Joseann

^I can understand that, but why the conclusion that it is an 'unfortunate u-turn'?^

Eh? Not my comment.

Not quite your comment, I admit, but this seems to convey the same message

backtracking on his pledge doesn't look good.