Sunak kills the Northern Powerhouse.

I have no idea how the initial investment was financed. Were there private investors?

What I am surmising is that there was no lump sum originally allocated to a government account called 'HS2 finance' (or something similar). All the state/government committed to was paying the bills for HS2 when presented to them. I don't know if there was a limit imposed beyond which they would stop paying; it doesn't appear that there was.

So, in that case, unlike a household account in which money were put aside for, say, 'home improvement', the money for HS2 most probably wasn't 'put aside. There probably isn't an actual balance saved by cancelling it that can be spent elsewhere, just a theoretical balance.

I might be wrong , this is just a strong suspicion on my part

I'm so glad you came on Maisie. I can see that without the government "seeding" the build, the investors would withdraw. No money!

It sounds even more despicable than it did to start with.

The lady in the corner also suggests that the money on offer may not actually exist. I seems to be investments attached and promised for HS2, that will simply disappear.

The lady in the corner is correct. The money never has 'existed'. It has no physical form and I strongly doubt that it is in any government account anywhere. It will only 'exist' if it is actually spent.

Like the £350million pw for the NHS ...

HS2 has slipped a long way down the list, I know, but some may find this interesting.

Just to clarify, this is not a channel I usually watch. It popped up after something else I was watching. I looks as if it is extreme-left generally - just so you know its bias.

It's a BBC interview being critiqued by the lady down in the bottom right corner. I would like to see more of this technique, perhaps on BBC verify.

What it seems to show is that the government is taking the savings from the ending of the leg to Birminham and the North East and giving it to Conservative voting areas. This may explain why Andy Street went so quiet after an initial burst of outrage.

The lady in the corner also suggests that the money on offer may not actually exist. I seems to be investments attached and promised for HS2, that will simply disappear.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWtiq9I2QoE

Mmm. I haven't seen any detail of how this will be organised - which part responsible for what when the change is completed Maisie. Nor have I seen ideas/plans about how they plan to make the H o C smaller. Mind you, I wouldn't have expected to at this point.

DaisyAnneReturns

Totally off topic, but I also hope that Starmer pushes the election of Combined Aurthotity Mayors for all areas, giving us something like 1 in Northern Ireland, 2 in Wales, 3 in Scotland and 10/12 in England. I also hope he intends to devolve all local decision making to them and cut the size of Parliament which would then look after purely national issues.

Then he could deal with the Lords.

I think that has been a Labour policy for a while now, DAR. More devolution to the regions.

Totally off topic, but I also hope that Starmer pushes the election of Combined Aurthotity Mayors for all areas, giving us something like 1 in Northern Ireland, 2 in Wales, 3 in Scotland and 10/12 in England. I also hope he intends to devolve all local decision making to them and cut the size of Parliament which would then look after purely national issues.

Then he could deal with the Lords.

I am beginning to think Starmer should say that, although the Conservatives have said they will not go ahead with HS2, Labour will look at each part of it, in consultation with the affected Combined Authority Mayors.

He should add that if any land, etc., is needed under future plans is sold Labour taking over it will be take it back under compulsory purchase orders. That should stop sales being attractive now.

If we're looking at Great Btitain, then Manchester is down south as it's about 50 miles south of the centre.

Ironically, at this moment in time I wouldn't mind at all being invaded by the Scots.
Yes but this government wouldn't like it! And I suspect that even if the next one is Labour they wouldn't be quite so keen on the idea!!!

Glorianny

MaizieD

Ethelwashere1

The money needs to be spent up North, the real North. The A1 desperately needs to be dualled. Imagine driving on the main road to Scotland on a single carriageway with huge lorries flying past in the opposite
direction with only inches to spare, worse in bad visibility. It's scary, there are hundreds of deaths on this road.
Hs2 was simply to get soft southern wimps to work quicker and was considered more important

If HS2 were going ahead perhaps some of the stuff that the huge lorries are carrying could have gone by rail, instead. It was nothing to do with shorter journeys, it was to provide extra capacity.

However, it is absolutely ridiculous that the only 'promised' upgrade to the AI north of Newcastle is a pathetic 23 miles north of Morpeth. It's 107 miles from Morpeth to Edinburgh. What difference is 23 miles going to make?

I've been regularly using the A1 from Yorkshire, and then Durham, to Essex for the past 50 years. It has been a constant scene of upgrading roadworks for a good 40 of them. Yet it all stops at Newcastle (currently being changed from 2 to 3 lane carriageways). I don't understand the thinking behind this neglect of a major transport route.

It's to stop the Scots from having a decent road to invade us by. We've always known they can't be trusted!

As for the southern wimps, I've noticed many of them migrating here and settling on the NE coast. Just as well there's no HS2 it would only encourage more

😂😂😂

Even though I'm a 'southern wimp' myself I do agree with your second point...

Ironically, at this moment in time I wouldn't mind at all being invaded by the Scots..

MaizieD

Ethelwashere1

The money needs to be spent up North, the real North. The A1 desperately needs to be dualled. Imagine driving on the main road to Scotland on a single carriageway with huge lorries flying past in the opposite
direction with only inches to spare, worse in bad visibility. It's scary, there are hundreds of deaths on this road.
Hs2 was simply to get soft southern wimps to work quicker and was considered more important

If HS2 were going ahead perhaps some of the stuff that the huge lorries are carrying could have gone by rail, instead. It was nothing to do with shorter journeys, it was to provide extra capacity.

However, it is absolutely ridiculous that the only 'promised' upgrade to the AI north of Newcastle is a pathetic 23 miles north of Morpeth. It's 107 miles from Morpeth to Edinburgh. What difference is 23 miles going to make?

I've been regularly using the A1 from Yorkshire, and then Durham, to Essex for the past 50 years. It has been a constant scene of upgrading roadworks for a good 40 of them. Yet it all stops at Newcastle (currently being changed from 2 to 3 lane carriageways). I don't understand the thinking behind this neglect of a major transport route.

It's to stop the Scots from having a decent road to invade us by. We've always known they can't be trusted!

As for the southern wimps, I've noticed many of them migrating here and settling on the NE coast. Just as well there's no HS2 it would only encourage more

Ethelwashere1

The money needs to be spent up North, the real North. The A1 desperately needs to be dualled. Imagine driving on the main road to Scotland on a single carriageway with huge lorries flying past in the opposite
direction with only inches to spare, worse in bad visibility. It's scary, there are hundreds of deaths on this road.
Hs2 was simply to get soft southern wimps to work quicker and was considered more important

If HS2 were going ahead perhaps some of the stuff that the huge lorries are carrying could have gone by rail, instead. It was nothing to do with shorter journeys, it was to provide extra capacity.

However, it is absolutely ridiculous that the only 'promised' upgrade to the AI north of Newcastle is a pathetic 23 miles north of Morpeth. It's 107 miles from Morpeth to Edinburgh. What difference is 23 miles going to make?

I've been regularly using the A1 from Yorkshire, and then Durham, to Essex for the past 50 years. It has been a constant scene of upgrading roadworks for a good 40 of them. Yet it all stops at Newcastle (currently being changed from 2 to 3 lane carriageways). I don't understand the thinking behind this neglect of a major transport route.

Or summat in’t water.

Germanshepherdsmum

Soft southern wimps?

Eeh bah gum, they breed 'em tough up North.
It's the weather.

Soft southern wimps?

The money needs to be spent up North, the real North. The A1 desperately needs to be dualled. Imagine driving on the main road to Scotland on a single carriageway with huge lorries flying past in the opposite
direction with only inches to spare, worse in bad visibility. It's scary, there are hundreds of deaths on this road.
Hs2 was simply to get soft southern wimps to work quicker and was considered more important

Sunak indicated in his speech that they would be looking into mismanagement of the project, so it isn’t by any means a given that everyone who has been working on it will be compensated.

As regards offering properties back to the original owners before selling on the open market, it has been the law for many years that this must be done where a property was bought by, or under threat of, compulsory purchase.

westendgirl, capital gains tax is only paid on a disposal, not a purchase. If disposals of property for the purpose of HS2 triggered CGT then it would be payable, however CGT is not payable on disposal of your principal private residence.

growstuff

I haven't a clue about the logistics of running a train freight service, but wouldn't that mean that the trains would be idle for half the day? Some freight trains do run during the night now. It would also mean that journey times would have to fit in conveniently to certain slots - and presumably the drivers and loaders (or whatever they're called) would have to be paid anti-social rates.

I used to live a couple of hundred metres away from a main rail line and I knew that there would be two freight trains a night - and I just had to put up with them. I must admit I wouldn't be very happy about the constant rumbling and house shaking of freight trains running all night.

When we’re at the level crossing we know when a freight train is coming because the lights are red for ages and ages. I do like to see them, though, because I know it means less lorries on the road. There seem to be a lot of Tescos ones. I used to love seeing the freight trains when we were in America. They seemed to be miles long ( and probably were).

Back in 2015 Keir Starmer opposed the building of HS2. End of story.

It's a myth peddled by their client media MayBee. One day eyes will be opened.

There needs to be a public enquiry into why the project has gone so far over budget. I thought the Conservative Party were supposed to be good with money?

Grantanow

The outrageous costs of HS2 arose from setting to high a speed requirement which required very straight track and too many tunnels to avoid upsetting Tory voters in the shires. £394m/mile for HS2 compared with about £40m/mile for the latest French TGV track.

It's the Tory voters in the shires who were turfed out of their homes to allow a 20 min reduction in getting to London from Birmingham, ancient woodlands destroyed, family homes destroyed, bet yours wasn't one, or you wouldn't be clapping would you.

MaizieD

ronib

DAR front page of the DT bought on the way to the dentist….it quite cheered me up…..

I'm not terribly sure that I would believe the DT.

What he actually said: "I can't stand here and give a commitment to reversing that decision. They have taken a wrecking ball to it," Starmer told reporters when asked what Labour would do.

'Can't commit' is not the same as 'won't'.

I had a feeling it might have been an "interpretation" of what he said, Maizie. He will, at the very least I would have thought, want to talk to the various Combined Council Mayors.

How Sunak can do this without any mandate from anyone is beyond me. I hope someone has been set to plough through the law books to see if there is anything he can be picked up on.

Are companies that had contracts for work on the line, who have employed staff and bought in plant and materials to fulfil the contract, going to be compensated?

This is actually taking money out of the economy.

Will Sunak's back of a fag packet Network North plan actually be effected? He's only got a year left...