Another death by an XL Bully

A law banning these dogs or requiring them to be muzzled cannot be enacted until a legal definition of what an XL Bully is can be established. Vets are working on it. I understand that extensive genetic testing is needed. The government hope that a ban can be put in place before the end of the year. It’s being worked on but it’s very complicated.

As before, only responsible people will buy a dog license as it's impossible to Police every dog owner. Provided you never buy a license,who will know you own a dog without having bought one? Not many people are going to be asking a neighbour if they have a dog license and then report them, or spy on them to make sure! Muzzling these dogs is the only realistic way of control, it can be seen if you don't and appropriately dealt with.

BlueBelle

Well what’s your answer Meryl ?
It’s not just pondlife that own them though I ve seen interviews lately with very normal looking people owning these dogs

BlueBelle
The owners might look ok on the face of it but they’re not wired properly where it counts: the brain.

What’s my answer: can’t be broadcast publicly 😉

Some thoughts....
The core argument surrounding the prohibition of any dog breed under these circumstances remains consistent. It's the acknowledgment that any breed or individual dog can potentially exhibit aggression, leading to severe injuries or, in tragic cases, even fatalities. Nevertheless, it's essential to recognize that while any dog can initiate an attack on a human, the consequences and injuries from a medical standpoint vary significantly when comparing a 1.5-3kg Chihuahua to a 30-40kg XL Bully biting someone's leg or face. Both dogs can display aggression, but their bite strength is markedly different.

This brings us to the concept of responsible ownership, returning to the initial point that any dog can display aggressive tendencies. It's vital to dispel the myth that it's solely about how they are raised. The behaviours and traits of a dog result from a combination of influences, starting with genetics. The blueprint for your dog's behaviour was established long before you selected them. It includes genetic predispositions, followed by environmental influences both with the breeder and in their new home. Finally, there's the aspect of how you raise them.
Regardless of the breed you choose, when you bring that dog into your life you assume responsibility for their actions. This means making wise choices in selecting a dog, providing the right environment, and investing time in proper socialization and training. When necessary, you should also employ the appropriate tools like quality collars, harnesses, leashes, and muzzles for safety. Concerning XL Bullies, sadly they are often marketed as tough dogs for tough people, attracting a particular type of owner, one whom is less responsible. This isn't always the case and there are some fantastic XL Bully owners out there with equally fantastic dogs, but these aren't the dogs that are making the news.

Breeders also play a significant role in the XL Bully issue. These dogs aren't officially recognized breeds but rather fall under the category of a breed "type." This lack of specific DNA markers means there's no breed standard to guide expectations regarding their traits, drives, motivations, or potential behavioural challenges. While each dog is unique, breed standards provide essential guidelines for choosing a dog that suits one's lifestyle.

Moreover, the XL Bully market is plagued by subpar breeders and unethical breeding practices. These dogs are often bred for appearance and size, which can directly impact their behaviour, as you can't alter one gene without affecting others. Temperament often takes a back seat, and these subpar breeders often do not provide the necessary early socialization.

Another issue with XL Bullies relates to rescue efforts. These dogs are sometimes placed in homes that are not a good match, with owners lacking the required knowledge and skill set for such a powerful breed type. Additionally, post-adoption support and training are often inadequate or non existent.

So, banning XL Bullies?

No, I think such a ban would be futile, it would simply lead to the emergence of another powerful breed to replace it. What truly deserves banning are irresponsible owner practices, irresponsible breeder practices, and irresponsible rescue practises.

Germanshepherdsmum

A law banning these dogs or requiring them to be muzzled cannot be enacted until a legal definition of what an XL Bully is can be established. Vets are working on it. I understand that extensive genetic testing is needed. The government hope that a ban can be put in place before the end of the year. It’s being worked on but it’s very complicated.

Which is why a law requiring all dogs to be muzzled in public is the short term fix. Any dog not muzzled in public would be subject to being seized, and potentially destroyed on the advice of a vet. It's just not practical to start differentiating by size, breed etc It will be for the authorities to deploy enough wardens to enforce the law.

Bridie22

Maybe until the breed is established a law insisting these dogs are muzzled when out in public?

Muzzled properly and on a lead.

rosie1959

Oreo

Sorry Chestnut just seen your post 👍🏻
If the bulldog is from a reputable breeder there’ll be paperwork about his breed to show as proof.

This is correct my sons came from a breed specific rescue he had been badly treated but has now found a home where he is loved and cared for properly.

What a nice outcome😃

That really is overkill Rosie, and such a law would never be enacted. Muzzle chihuahuas for instance? And local authorities could not possibly afford sufficient dog wardens to enforce it.

Bridie, you come back to the problem of what ‘these dogs’ actually are. An Act of Parliament has to define them, whether it is for the purpose of banning them or having them muzzled. At present the experts are working on a definition.

Reading about some of these dreadful incidents it does seem the dogs came to be with their owners under dubious circumstances. One given away on FB another on Snapchat. Surely animals should not be given away via social media.
This is always going to be the problem, responsible owners will comply with the law it's the other idiots we need to deal with.

Jaberwok

As before, only responsible people will buy a dog license as it's impossible to Police every dog owner. Provided you never buy a license,who will know you own a dog without having bought one? Not many people are going to be asking a neighbour if they have a dog license and then report them, or spy on them to make sure! Muzzling these dogs is the only realistic way of control, it can be seen if you don't and appropriately dealt with.

All dogs now have to be chipped and registered which is the equivalent of having a licence. However their records aren’t kept up to date.

I think that all XL Bullies should be neutered so that the breed eventually dies out. I don't mean that it should be done voluntarily but that each one should be reported to the police who should then ensure that neutering takes place. They should also have a tattoo which shows that they have been neutered. A record should also be kept of those numbers just in case someone decides to tattoo their own dog.

I know that some XL owners will say that their dogs are very good natured but a dog may attack for an unexplained reason.

Most breeds originally had a real purpose, rather than just being pets and that purpose, bred into them over many generations in the past, are still inherent. My Berger de Pyrenees (sheepdog) will sit outside listening to what is going on around her. She can sit for a long time, just moving her head very slightly. At night she is a real pain because she hears hedgehogs, cats and other creatures walking past and she then barks her head off. I don't stop her barking immediately because, since she is blind she needs a bit of entertainment.

Too many dog owners now believe that rules don't apply to them. In West Wales at the moment there are seal pups in lots of the bays. There are many signs asking people to keep their dogs away and walk them on leads, but every day we see dogs on the coast paths running loose without collars let alone leads. Inevitably they frequently harass any seal pups they encounter

Dinahmo I don't think dogs need a tattoo to show they are neutered they have items missing at their rear end

Not if they’re female. None of my spayed female dogs (I hate using the b word) have had a visible scar once the wound has healed and the fur grown again. Even a vet couldn’t confirm that my current rescue had been spayed, as I had been told, but she obviously has been - no seasons. Any neutering policy for these dogs should apply to males and females.

Germanshepherdsmum that's why I did say dogs not bitches

rosie1959

Dinahmo I don't think dogs need a tattoo to show they are neutered they have items missing at their rear end

They could be crypt orchid. I got a male Cairn terrier through the breed rescue society. He was being looked after by a lady, a retired vet, who realised that there were no neutering scars. Before he could be adopted by me he had the op and both testicles removed.

That really is overkill Rosie, and such a law would never be enacted. Muzzle chihuahuas for instance? And local authorities could not possibly afford sufficient dog wardens to enforce it.

I accept that such a law would be overkill, but I'd rather that than to keep reading about mauled and dead people. It's no good wringing our hands and saying "how awful". No law is able to be enforced 100 % and it would only be a small minority that wouldn't comply. At the very least we could legislate that dogs must be on leads in all public spaces except designated lead-free areas. In Canada these are fenced enclosures and they don't seem to have a problem complying. Either we think protecting the public from out of control dogs, whatever breed they are, is worthwhile or we don't. Difficulties of enforcement shouldn't negate trying.

We have a 10 month old xlbully at our beginners training group. He’s a good looking, friendly pup whose owner started classes as soon as he’d been immunised. He’s calm and responsive, the owner is muzzle training him in preparation for that being expected. She knows he has to be neutered but wants to wait ideally till fully grown at age 2 - recommended for big dogs.
He’s the only xl bully I’ve seen at any of our training groups but, I see an average of 2 or 3 a day as I drive round certain areas. Yes, it’s the big council estates, or deprived areas in our town.
As others have said, some XLBullies have the owners I described earlier. Sadly many of them are in entirely the wrong hands. Yes, they’re favoured by drug dealers as well as by daft lads/people with no training, who won’t read training advice on line and just swagger about with their dog at the end of an inadequate lead, towing its owner along.

I’m a life long dog owner. I currently have 2, in the past have had 3. I’m increasingly cautious about where my dogs are allowed off lead. There are far too many dogs with owners who have no idea about basic canine care, training or manners. I don’t believe all dogs need to be muzzled but I’d muzzle XLBullies.
Anyone who buys a pup, or rescues should be expected to commit to accredited training groups, or 1-1 if the dog can’t cope in small groups. No, I don’t know how this could be enforced

I would entirely support a law which required all dogs to be on leads when out in public, save for designated lead-free areas Rosie. It would protect both people and dogs.

I also think all dogs should be on leads in public places. I have a nervous rescue, some of it is breed specific behaviour but I keep her on lead and it really isn't a problem to do so. It is other people and their dogs that are a problem. If I see a dog who is on lead and has nervous wear on or is just displaying challenging/nervous behaviour I just stay away from them. The problem is people not understanding that dogs are dogs most of the time. No one gives a scooby doo if Freddie is friendly, just keep on a lead away from my on lead dog or child or 'whatever'

I’m another who is reaching the sad conclusion dogs should be on leads unless on private enclosed fields. My past 11 dogs, including the current 5 year old spaniel have all been great off lead, walk to heel off lead, excellent recall. Current 2 year old lab 5 stone of excitable, over enthusiastic muscle, so he’s on lead to avoid him enthusiastically greeting people. He’s 90% reliable but I’m not risking him practicing bad behaviour. He gets off lead fun on private land.
I’m absolutely sick of off lead dogs, with no manners or recall jumping all over my on lead lab. He’s becoming sick of it as well. The owners shout ‘it’s ok they’re friendly’ as their 3 out of control dogs race up. It’s just bad manners and they’re lucky their daft dogs haven’t yet met an xkbully

I agree all dogs should be on a lead regardless of their breed, I would prefer muzzling also, those that don't comply should have the dog confiscated.
This carnage must be allowed to continue.

Muzzle chihuahuas and the like?

Must NOT be allowed!!!!

If that’s what’s needed GSM yes if they can’t decide what breed these killers belong to then yes they will have to muzzle all dogs Thos cannot go on can it ?