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Rishi Sunak and other Tories attack 15 minute cities

(176 Posts)
Dinahmo Sat 07-Oct-23 12:40:01

A Sorbonne professor, Carlos Moreno, has formulated the idea of 15 Minute Cities. These will be somewhere where " where inhabitants have access to all the services they need to live, learn and thrive within their immediate vicinity - and shares ideas for making urban areas adapt to humans, not the other way around"

According to the NY Times Moreno is now Public Enemy No 1 because of the widespread belief that he wants to ban cars. He does not but he hopes that by people being able to walk or cycle for 15 minutes to get to what they need dependency on cars will be reduced.

This is taken from Forbes Magazine:
After coining the term “15-minute city” Moreno was invited to give talks internationally. But with this growing profile—and the swift acceptance of his simple-to-grasp defining concept—he became the target of hate. He is often on the receiving end of personal abuse on social media.

“They insult me, call me human trash, Neo-fascist or a rotten Latino,” he told me by email last year. He has critics from the left and the right, but in an all too typical Venn diagram of tinfoilhattedness they share climate denial, downplay of Covid harms, and anti-vaxxer beliefs.

“Their lies are enormous,” he exclaimed.

“You will be locked in your neighborhood; cameras will signal who can go out; if your mother lives in another neighborhood, you will have to ask for permission to see her and so on.”

He added, in disgust, they “sometimes post pictures of concentration camps.”

“The conspiracists see a big global agreement,” he said.

“As the UN-Habitat, the World Economic Forum, the C40 Global Cities Climate Network, and the Federation of United Local Governments, among others, have supported the [15-Minute-City] concept, it feeds their fantasies that I am involved in the ‘invisible leadership’ of the world.”

Moreno has been shocked to see his concept derided by the U.K. government, with the U.K. transport secretary trashing 15-Minute Cities in his speech today at the annual Conservative Party conference in Manchester.

“Right across our country, there is a Labour-backed movement to make cars harder to use, to make driving more expensive, and to remove your freedom to get from A to B how you want,” Transport Secretary Mark Harper told the conference.

“I am calling time on the misuse of so-called 15-minute cities,” he added.

“What is sinister, and what we shouldn’t tolerate, is the idea that local councils can decide how often you go to the shops, and that they can ration who uses the roads and when, and that they police it all with CCTV,” Harper said.

According to The Sun, Prime Minister Sunak “takes aim at so-called ‘“15 Minute Cities’” to make everyday essentials bike friendly - vowing to make sure drivers are not ‘aggressively restricted’.”

“Associating the 15-Minute City again with so-called liberty-restricting measures is tantamount to aligning with the most radical and anti-democratic elements of this movement.”

This is from Politico:

Broadly, the idea is to cut down on long commutes and car emissions, and improve people's quality of life by ensuring they have access to quality services where they live.
That's not the way it's being seen in Oxford.

News that the city council adopted a plan to embrace the 15-minute city model prompted fierce backlash, with local groups and public figures alleging that authorities planned to restrict residents to their immediate neighborhoods and strictly police their movements. A rally attend by thousands in Oxford last month claimed to be protesting plans to reconfigure the city as a "Stalinist-style, closed city" and the eventual enslavement of local citizens.

The outrage has been fanned by popular right-wing media figures and politicians, who seized on the issue as an outrageous example of government overreach.

"You will only have 15 minutes of freedom here in the U.K.," said the far-right media personality Katy Hopkins, who compared the scheme to pandemic-era lockdowns and claimed authorities will use facial recognition technology to police residents.

News commentator Mark Dolan denounced the plan as "dystopian," and similarly warned that the city planned to use "numberplate recognition cameras, installed everywhere" to create "a surveillance culture that would make Pyongyang envious."

The issue even made its way to the House of Commons, where Tory MP Nick Fletcher described 15-minute cities as an "international socialist concept" whose ultimate purpose was to "take away personal freedoms."

Although these alarmist claims of mass surveillance and loss of individual freedom are indeed far-fetched, the anxiety and unrest unleashed in Oxford fits into a broader picture of local pushback across Europe against green measures that are perceived as an attack on personal freedoms — particularly when they affect personal car use.

Given that most people are used to our high streets becoming deserts with only charity shops and cafes and not much else, surely the idea of the facilities that we need being much closer to our homes, surely the 15 minute city is a good idea?

What do you think?

Doodledog Sun 08-Oct-23 15:43:52

MaizieD

How would you characterise 'dispassionate discussion'. Dd?

Not using language such as 'fuelled by 'fears imagined by a far-right government' of DAR's earlier post, with its implicit denigration of those who don't like the idea, or the sort of 'basking in the sunlit uplands' language of the article which sells the idea as a slice of Heaven.

Just a discussion about what might be the good things about such a scheme, what might not work, and what would be model that could give everyone the best outcome, with an understanding that all views are welcome and that everyone participating is speaking for herself, rather than as a mouthpiece for a political perspective.

M0nica Sun 08-Oct-23 14:21:36

GrannyGravy13 I can only assume that 'village' is a fancy name for your community. It sounds to me more like a suburb, which once was a separate village.

I live in a commuter village, there is little or no employment within the village. There is a large science and research park, perhaps a 20 minute walk away, depending where on it you work

Within a 15 minute walk, there is a small co-op self service, a car repair man, primary school and nursery, 2 pubs doing meals, neither very nice, we have eaten in both, once. If I walked really fast, there is a farm shop, selling much the same things as the co-op, but better quality and more expensive.

Doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacy, secondary school, cafes, and the numerous other facilities you mention are at least 4 miles away in one of three local small towns. The hospital is 15 miles away, and difficult to access and has insufficient parking.

I can only repeat what i said in my previous post
My local authority has a population of 150,000, the majority live within 5 miles of where we live and for most of us 15 minute living is quite impossible.

MaizieD Sun 08-Oct-23 14:12:46

How would you characterise 'dispassionate discussion'. Dd?

GrannyGravy13 Sun 08-Oct-23 14:08:12

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns

Cities tend to grow from villages and towns joining together in the first instance, but that often creates the donut city which hollows out centre as it loses its better off residents and businesses to the suburbs.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove GG, other than that you are lucky with where you live smile

Our family has had a home within 1 mile of where I currently live for 52 years.

In that time the area has grown organically to suit and accommodate the needs of the community. Businesses that were surplus to requirements have moved on and been replaced by those which are needed and used.

This is far better in my view than a bod living many miles away doing a couple of surveys and vox pops deciding what this or any other community needs

As for what am I trying to prove sorry DaisyAnneReturns I have got absolutely nothing to prove to you or anyone else on GN, nor do I intend to.

If you live in an inner city, poverty striken area area that has managed to grow organically avoiding becoming a food desert, etc., the you are right GrannyGravy. We obviously have no need for councils to intervene. We just need people like you to go and tell them how to do it.

Now you are just being silly DaisyAnneReturns

If you are unable to see that hamlets, villages, towns & even cities evolve and change over years according to the needs and circumstances of those that live in and around them I cannot help that.

Councils obviously have a part to play with regards planning permission and providing public services (libraries, rubbish/recycling collections, parks and amenities along with social care and housing)

Local councils are made up of local people, they are more in tune with their immediate area than County Councils and Governments.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 14:00:50

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns

Cities tend to grow from villages and towns joining together in the first instance, but that often creates the donut city which hollows out centre as it loses its better off residents and businesses to the suburbs.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove GG, other than that you are lucky with where you live smile

Our family has had a home within 1 mile of where I currently live for 52 years.

In that time the area has grown organically to suit and accommodate the needs of the community. Businesses that were surplus to requirements have moved on and been replaced by those which are needed and used.

This is far better in my view than a bod living many miles away doing a couple of surveys and vox pops deciding what this or any other community needs

As for what am I trying to prove sorry DaisyAnneReturns I have got absolutely nothing to prove to you or anyone else on GN, nor do I intend to.

If you live in an inner city, poverty striken area area that has managed to grow organically avoiding becoming a food desert, etc., the you are right GrannyGravy. We obviously have no need for councils to intervene. We just need people like you to go and tell them how to do it.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 13:52:02

Attempt to balance conversation is simply a reminder that conversations are only effective when they are two-way
Doodledog.

I must admit I wasn't aware my thinking was going to be marked by you.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 08-Oct-23 13:01:22

DaisyAnneReturns

Cities tend to grow from villages and towns joining together in the first instance, but that often creates the donut city which hollows out centre as it loses its better off residents and businesses to the suburbs.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove GG, other than that you are lucky with where you live smile

Our family has had a home within 1 mile of where I currently live for 52 years.

In that time the area has grown organically to suit and accommodate the needs of the community. Businesses that were surplus to requirements have moved on and been replaced by those which are needed and used.

This is far better in my view than a bod living many miles away doing a couple of surveys and vox pops deciding what this or any other community needs

As for what am I trying to prove sorry DaisyAnneReturns I have got absolutely nothing to prove to you or anyone else on GN, nor do I intend to.

Doodledog Sun 08-Oct-23 12:55:37

Put against anti-zone rhetoric, maybe - but it's the sort of 'balance' achieved by the BBC during Brexit grin. The language of the article was a textbook example of persuasive writing.

I like balance too, but not one set of rhetoric against another. Dispassionate discussion works better for me.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 12:51:45

I did look at the way the article was written before posting the link Doodledog. It seemed like a good balance to the fear raising exaggeration of Sunak et al.

I like balance.

Doodledog Sun 08-Oct-23 12:50:32

nanna8

Do we ? I didn’t know.

grin

nanna8 Sun 08-Oct-23 12:47:54

Do we ? I didn’t know.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 12:43:32

nanna8

Wouldn’t work in Australia!

This is about cities nanna. You do have them.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 12:40:26

Which city is that "Elegran"? You never know, others may have a different view of what is being done.

DaisyAnneReturns Sun 08-Oct-23 12:38:06

Cities tend to grow from villages and towns joining together in the first instance, but that often creates the donut city which hollows out centre as it loses its better off residents and businesses to the suburbs.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove GG, other than that you are lucky with where you live smile

Fairycakes Sun 08-Oct-23 12:13:14

I don't trust any of the parties. I think they all want to control us hmm

Doodledog Sun 08-Oct-23 12:07:41

Well put, Elegran.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 08-Oct-23 12:07:40

Elegran excellent post

Elegran Sun 08-Oct-23 12:04:24

If communities were beads on a string, each having all amenities accessible by walking for less than fifteen minutes, a frequent electric minibus service available linking all houses with shopping, medical and recreational facilities that meant all residential properties were no more that five minutes from a bus, and frequent and reliable public transport taking residents along the highway to other beads in the chain, then it all would work like villages.

Villages have natural boundaries which have historic reasons and extend slowly and organically. One village couldn't be transplanted to another location without disrupting its function and that of the site where it is replanted.

But when existing cities are divided up into what is hoped will prove to be self-contained beads but which inevitably have some artificial boundaries, there is a danger of amputating some parts from their blood supply. It has to be done gradually so that the circulation adapts a little at a time. Forcing the pace of it can be counter-productive - it becomes a Big Brother exercise in social engineering if it doesn't have the goodwill of the residents and tradesmen.

nanna8 Sun 08-Oct-23 11:59:06

Wouldn’t work in Australia!

Doodledog Sun 08-Oct-23 11:54:01

I do wish these things could be discussed without loaded rhetoric, whether that is the language of the LeedsLive article, with people 'relaxing outside the bus station', or 'enjoying the sun with their grandson's partner', on the one hand or 'fears imagined by a far-right government' on the other. The former suggests that family relationships and even the weather will blossom in the zones, and the latter that anyone questioning the practicalities is gullible and/or far-right.

I am certainly not arguing against the idea in principle. I am also a firm believer in community, and also supportive of anything that reduces the reliance on cars. I am also lucky enough to live in what amounts to a 15 minute neighbourhood, which I chose because I don't want to rely on a car. I have every sympathy with people in huge housing estates with few facilities, and often bring that up when people suggest that those feeding a family on a low income should buy more fresh fruit and vegetables. I know how having to get an expensive and unreliable bus to a supermarket and carry bags home with a buggy and toddlers makes people likely to settle for a frozen pizza, as a friend of mine lived in such a place after her divorce. It was difficult for her to do anything because of lack of transport - the simplest things were made all but impossible. Even expensive housing developments often have very few facilities, and this puts pressure on centres, because people living in the developments have to bring cars into town for every errand, school run or medical visit.

All the same, I don't understand how every small area can have a vet, a library, a nursery, a cinema, restaurants, cafes, shopping and various medical/paramedical offerings. It just isn't commercially viable. The cynic in me can't help thinking that what will happen will be Utopian areas with all the facilities - possibly built with money from government incentives, and others without any.

Katie59 Sun 08-Oct-23 11:46:57

Callistemon21

^Cannot see what’s new about 15 minute cities?^

Some of us might call them market towns 😃

Yes communities of that size most using cars all the time for convenience

MaizieD Sun 08-Oct-23 11:45:19

Callistemon21

^Cannot see what’s new about 15 minute cities?^

Some of us might call them market towns 😃

That's why the focus is on cities, isn't it?

When I lived in Sheffield 50 years ago most of the local areas were like that, though, with local, useful, shops and services.

Also, because it was in the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire, pre Thatcher's privatisation of bus services, buses were cheap and frequent and access to all of the city and the surrounding countryside (glorious Derbyshire) was easy .

Galaxy Sun 08-Oct-23 11:39:08

I tend to ignore the term right wing when used as a slur these days I see it regularly used against left wing or centrist women so it has become meaningless.

Galaxy Sun 08-Oct-23 11:37:47

I live in a large village it has many of the facilities you describe, in terms of retail services the only ones I use are the restaurants. The bakers, optician etc offer a much poorer service/higher price than ones in towns.
I work in a city, I have no objection to ensuring areas within the city offer adequate facilities, however I work with lots of families whose lives would be transformed if they could drive, had financial means to run a car etc.

Elegran Sun 08-Oct-23 11:33:50

DaisyAnneReturns

Is any council suggesting a "magic wand"?

Leeds included 20-minute neighbourhoods in their current and ongoing plans.

This quotes people who live in such an area, not people with fears imagined by a far-right government.

Mine does. Then when it doesn't work out, it starts again on another tack, leaving the chaos it made.

Right wing imaginary fears? Not here!