Labour Party conference

Many early years settings (private day nurseries) do teeth brushing as a matter of course, not so much schools.

Whitewavemark2

The teeth cleaning idea has a big thumbs up from the School of Dental Surgeons.

But from teachers? Have they been asked?

Yes I bet, Labour seem very keen to engage business wherever possible.

Whitewavemark2

Teaching assistants? This will probably only take place in primary school.

Imagine trying it in seniors😄😄😄

I don’t know if they are still in place, probably not, but there used to be oral health workers attached to Health Promotion departments, and a big part of their role was education in schools, they went out and taught the children to clean their teeth, and gave each child a toothbrush and toothpaste (paid for by the manufacturers as free advertising for them) to get them started at home. I imagine a similar model would apply.

I think that what has been realised over the past decade or so is that oral health is vital for your health in general.

My theory was always was one of the reasons my mother lived to 101 as she had every tooth in her head extracted in her early twenties. 😄😄

Teaching assistants? This will probably only take place in primary school.

Imagine trying it in seniors😄😄😄

How do they propose to increase NHS dental appointments ?

Do they intend to revise the scale of payments?

I realise that teeth cleaning sessions are not a bad thing, but I don't think that teachers will want that piled on top of the non teaching work that they already do...

MayBee70

I only caught a bit of it but I’m sure I heard that they were going to increase the number of NHS dental appointments available? I emailed one Labour MP the other week about something else and asked why no one seemed to be talking about the lack of NHS dental treatment available.

What’s happening at the moment is that there’s a reasonable incentive to take on new patients, but dentists are paid less for checkups and treatments. So new patients take precedence over existing patients, it’s not the fault of the dentists themselves, they have no choice but to do this if they want their practice to survive. I know two who have taken early retirement in the last two years. My own dentist was brilliant, so kind and thorough, and he felt he was failing his long-standing patients - a really sad state of affairs.

For the poor of which there are now many, many more. Dentist fees are something they can avoid, simply by not attending. The other issue I think that by not being able to visiting regularly, they are not providing a roll model for their children, thus piling up the issues for the future.

I only caught a bit of it but I’m sure I heard that they were going to increase the number of NHS dental appointments available? I emailed one Labour MP the other week about something else and asked why no one seemed to be talking about the lack of NHS dental treatment available.

MaizieD

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Thanks for this, Casdon, it does confirm what I was thinking. I know it won't be more than sticking plaster, but it would fill a bit of a gap.

Oh, Labour are going to solve the dentistry problem by getting teachers to supervise teeth cleaning sessions at school, aren't they?

I assume that the UK is till training dentists, isn't it? Is there a shortfall or do they all just all go private?

Would improving the NHS fee payments help? A retired dentist friend says that the fees were too low to make NHS work cost effective.

Teeth cleaning sessions are a good idea, prevention is always better than treatment - catch them young.
The university dental schools are still training dentists, but the payment system has been decimated, so they can’t make a wholly NHS practice pay, as your friend says. My fear is that the NHS base in dentistry is now so low that it won’t be possible to attract people to start up new practices - many have lost all their dentists, their premises and equipment, and others are hanging on by a wing and a prayer. There’s also years worth of stored up dental issues for patients, many of whom have been without anything but emergency treatment for a long time. I hope I’m wrong.

The teeth cleaning idea has a big thumbs up from the School of Dental Surgeons.

Bella23

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

You've taken the thoughts out of my head Granny Gravy.
First, they need extra places for the Dr's they are hoping to train,then recrute the right people. They need to persuade the newly qualified to stay on after doing their house jobs.
A Dr's early training is 6 years including Housejobs, if they do not do another degree which some do. So add on maybe another 4 years for increasing places and getting enough Senior staff to stay on and train in the Universities or on wards and you are looking at at least 10 years+.
I won't be holding my breath or probably not be here by the time it is resolved.

There are a lot of already trained doctors not currently working in the NHS, working less hours than they could to manage their stress levels, juniors who haven’t yet succeeded in obtaining training placements, overseas doctors already in the UK who want to work, etc. too though. What they have to have is confidence that there will be commitment and sustained funding. It will take years to get back to where we were in 2010, but it is possible.
If a left wing Labour supporter comes on this thread and says anything about Labour having a privatisation agenda by using private capacity to reduce waiting lists over the next few years though, they will be getting a virtual punch between the eyes from me, as that is an integral part of any plan to improve the NHS in the next few years.

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Thanks for this, Casdon, it does confirm what I was thinking. I know it won't be more than sticking plaster, but it would fill a bit of a gap.

Oh, Labour are going to solve the dentistry problem by getting teachers to supervise teeth cleaning sessions at school, aren't they?

I assume that the UK is till training dentists, isn't it? Is there a shortfall or do they all just all go private?

Would improving the NHS fee payments help? A retired dentist friend says that the fees were too low to make NHS work cost effective.

I'm wondering what we are going to hear about Labour's plans for Education this week. I think they said they will promise a bonus for newly qualified teachers who stay in post for two years? This might make a tiny difference I guess.
As for returnees to the profession, no one in their right mind wants the stress of dealing with poor discipline, ghastly inspections, continuous assessments, exams etc., so I don't think they will be seeing any of these ex teachers returning soon.

Labour promised to deal with the failing NHS the last time they were in power.

At the end of their tenure the NHS was the best in the world.

Have a little faith.

I do agree about the waiting lists, but assuming that clinicians want the best for their patients, then tackling the waiting list should be a priority if they want to save as many lives as possible.

The two issue can be deal with in tandem I would have thought. In fact they are separate issues.

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

You've taken the thoughts out of my head Granny Gravy.
First, they need extra places for the Dr's they are hoping to train,then recrute the right people. They need to persuade the newly qualified to stay on after doing their house jobs.
A Dr's early training is 6 years including Housejobs, if they do not do another degree which some do. So add on maybe another 4 years for increasing places and getting enough Senior staff to stay on and train in the Universities or on wards and you are looking at at least 10 years+.
I won't be holding my breath or probably not be here by the time it is resolved.

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Waiting not Wiring -dread to think what a wiring list would be, maybe Orthodontics?

To maizie

Yes there is that as well. They could move smoothly from an asylum seeker to visa holder. Brilliant. Two problems dealt with in one move.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

That's assuming that the uproar came exclusively from the left...

I wonder how many medical workers there are among the huge backlog of asylum seekers.

gg13 no one as far as I am aware suggesting that we actively employ clinicians from developing countries.

There are plenty of other countries whose doctors are seeking to gain experience in a country other than their own.

Don’t forget that before the Tories trash it, the NHS was the best health provider in the world and clinicians were very keen to work for such a prestigious health provider. I am hoping that labour will begin to build the nhs back to at least a little more like it’s old self.

I suspect that dispute talks will be the first thing that they will deal with.

They will have to if they don’t want their plans scuppered from the word go.

Labour has no access to the treasury/health dept. Etc so nothing at this stage can be definitive.