Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

foxie48

Glorianny I think you have completely misunderstood my post. The rockets are not being fired by the Palestinians, they are being fired by terrorists who are Palestinian. I believe there is a distinct difference and it's important to be clear about who is doing what.

Not that I'm saying who fired the rocket that destroyed the hospital, waiting for evidence.

Today's episode of "Understand, Israel and Palestine" was about Hamas. Well worth a listen as it explains why the citizens of Gaza voted for Hamas in 2007, they were not voting for violent terrorists, they were voting for a political party. Also clarifies which countries are supportive of Hamas and those who don't.

Glorianny I think you have completely misunderstood my post. The rockets are not being fired by the Palestinians, they are being fired by terrorists who are Palestinian. I believe there is a distinct difference and it's important to be clear about who is doing what.

This is a link from another thread, it extremely chilling to watch, this is London 2023

twitter.com/Emily8275/status/1712435095733514657/video/1

I probably should have made that clear - apologies.

Fleurpepper mentioned 'point scoring on GN.' I was replying to her comment not accusing you growstuff.

tickingbird

growstuff

How dare you accuse me of appearing to justify the butchery by Hamas!! angry

I have done nothing of the sort.

Apologies. My comment was to Glorianny but I mistakenly typed your name.

Thank you for the apology. It just goes to show how easily conflicts can happen.

Having seem the reports so far it seems a Palestinian rocket malfunctioned and landed in the hospital car park, there did not appear to be any where near 500 deaths. The home made rockets are well known to be unreliable if you are going to fire them over a built up area there is going to be damage.

growstuff

How dare you accuse me of appearing to justify the butchery by Hamas!! angry

I have done nothing of the sort.

Apologies. My comment was to Glorianny but I mistakenly typed your name.

Glorianny
I'm concerned about all the deaths not just the massacre which happened and which was terrible. But I find the unjustified shooting of civilians just as terrible.

It isn't just a question of disagreeing with the government. I asked what do you do when you see the rights of your people being eroded. Netanyahu is in fact the acceptable face of unacceptable far right views which would deny the rights of Arabs and Christians. To not see the dangers of the rise of these beliefs in Israel is either deliberate or simply uninformed.

What would I do if I was Hamas and wanted peace for my people? I’d stop firing rockets into Israel for a start. This happens all the time, it’s a regular occurrence and part of everyday life for many Israelis. Why do you think they have safe rooms?

As for Netanyahu and Co being ultra far right and denying Christians their rights. That’s nothing to do with Hamas. Other countries around the world have dreadful human rights records but other governments don’t take it upon themselves to send in hit squads to slaughter innocent families and youngsters at concerts.

foxie48

Katie59

nanna8

They are arguing about who bombed the hospital. Isaraelis or Palestinians. How low can you get to do a thing like that, whoever is responsible ? They should be deeply ashamed.

If there is evidence that it was a Palestinian rocket that caused the damage the world needs to know, although it probably won’t convince the Arab world

It may seem "nit picking" but Israel is at war with Hamas and other terrorists operating out of Gaza, not Palestine. As far as I am aware there has been no declaration of war by Israel that includes the West Bank or that it is in a war with the Palestinian people in Gaza. I think it's an important distinction.

But it is the Palestinian people the bombs are killing. Do you need to declare war? If you bomb somewhere do the bombs discriminate between Hamas and civilians? The bombing of southern Gaza, where many escaped to, after being told to leave the North, is horrendous. The news showed 30 people, mostly women and children, from one family, some from Northern Gaza, killed in the bombing.

Jaberwok

No one is scoring points on here, just expressing their individual points of view as they are entitled to do.

I haven't accused anybody of scoring points and I object to anybody who accuses me of doing so. I'm as horrified by the whole situation as anybody else.

I do not feel qualified to know enough about this situation to have anything useful to say.

But I do know what is happening right now to my Jewish friend here in the UK following these tragic events. It is all so very sad.

Hospital bombed by Hamas.

As far as refugee status is concerned many Palestinians are reluctant to leave and countries are reluctant to accept them because this is what happened in the Nakba, and it is now recognised that once a territory is abandoned Israel will occupy it.

Yesterday's Radio 4 programme "Understand, Israel and the Palestinians" is helpful in explaining how Israel has expanded it's territory and moved to the right politically. Available on BBC Sounds for anyone who is open to understanding more about the complexity of this problem.

No one is scoring points on here, just expressing their individual points of view as they are entitled to do.

tickingbird

Growstuff
Are we then playing one up man ship with massacres and deaths?
I’m not but you evidently are with your comments appearing to justify the butchery by Hamas.

Disagreeing with the Netanyahu government is no excuse for seeking to excuse in any way the massacre of innocents.

How dare you accuse me of appearing to justify the butchery by Hamas!!

I have done nothing of the sort.

Jaberwok

Because they intend to invade Northern Gaza and that will include blowing up any munitions that are almost certainly stored in hospitals and schools. Intelligence has probably confirmed this.

Ah I see they don't bomb them just blow them up! I'm sure that is a great comfort to those who die and their relatives.
The point is of course Israel has no boundaries about what is or isn't an acceptable target.

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper who are these other countries please.

A sweeping statement is not proof of anything

I am trying to keep away. My initial post didn't mention 'countries' but people and leaders. The condemnation of the terrible, appalling and beyond human attacks by Hamas has coume from countries and their official leaders. But the unconditional support for Netanyahu and the bombing of civilians on the move, as ordered by Natanyahu- has come from the right and ult right of all those countries. Restraints has been called for by the centre right and all the way to the left and the far left- those parties within which have facist tendencies and have always had, and in the 30s and 40s and beyond.

It will be very difficult to prove who bombed the Hospital - but one thing is for sure- Natanyahu will say it was not them, wouldn't he. I don't believe a word he and his military say- and neither do my friends from Israel, who do not trust him in any way, shape or form.

Scoring points on GN is beyond the pale- the suffering is just too much to bear for those people- and if we are not careful- it will escalate and Netanyahu will take us all down with him. The actions of Hamas have to be condemned totally an absolutely, without any hesitation. Whatever the history of the conflict is, before Nakbar and after- and despite the dreadul ILLEGAL EXPANSION ever since.

ronib

I am not being flippant when I wonder about refugee status for civilians - it doesn’t seem to be an option? How can the nearest countries to Israel/Gaza chose not to help?

Because they know the Hamas will be mingling with genuine refugees. This is the problem with the Egypt border.

Katie59

nanna8

They are arguing about who bombed the hospital. Isaraelis or Palestinians. How low can you get to do a thing like that, whoever is responsible ? They should be deeply ashamed.

If there is evidence that it was a Palestinian rocket that caused the damage the world needs to know, although it probably won’t convince the Arab world

It may seem "nit picking" but Israel is at war with Hamas and other terrorists operating out of Gaza, not Palestine. As far as I am aware there has been no declaration of war by Israel that includes the West Bank or that it is in a war with the Palestinian people in Gaza. I think it's an important distinction.

Because they intend to invade Northern Gaza and that will include blowing up any munitions that are almost certainly stored in hospitals and schools. Intelligence has probably confirmed this.

Glorianny worst case scenario is an intention to flatten the area by whatever means? Of course Israel has consistently asked for the evacuation and maybe there’s a reason?

Why if they never bomb hospitals has Israel issued evacuation orders to the hospitals in Northern Gaza, something which puts many patients at risk? www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured