Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

I don’t think a “sovereign state” is on the agenda at all, the West Bank could theoretically become that with secure borders, I doubt that would prevent attacks on Israel.

Until the Arab world acknowledges Israel’s right to exist I don’t see anything other than armed isolation.

A very very sad situation in Gaza. An Israeli soldier is given space to correct a CNN presenter that Israel's war in Gaza is in fact against all civilians. "I tried to correct you..the war is not just with Hamas... the war is with all the civilians.. "

Israel must stop their brutal occupation and apartheid there is no hope of peace or a settlement. Gaza is an open air prison Israel controls everything who goes in, out water, power ect.
When the PM speaks today he should remember to change his rhetoric include Palestine the innocent civilians remember just being on the side of Israel what it's doing is a war crime he has been warned. Also KS and some of his ministers.

Katie59

I don’t think a “sovereign state” is on the agenda at all, the West Bank could theoretically become that with secure borders, I doubt that would prevent attacks on Israel.

Until the Arab world acknowledges Israel’s right to exist I don’t see anything other than armed isolation.

Unfortunately I think you are correct.

I weep for the innocent people on both sides of this conflict.

Katie59

I don’t think a “sovereign state” is on the agenda at all, the West Bank could theoretically become that with secure borders, I doubt that would prevent attacks on Israel.

Until the Arab world acknowledges Israel’s right to exist I don’t see anything other than armed isolation.

The right to exist is one thing. Nakbar was brutal and cruel in the extreme- but it could have been accepted eventually.

The right to constant, rampant, cruel, inhumane, destructive and ILLEGAL expansion is totally another.

Why did Hamas decide to slaughter so many innocent Israeli civilians at this moment in time?
Why ?

Whitewavemark2

Israel is now threatening to “completely destroy” Lebanon.

I do think the rhetoric needs calming down.

I have been talking to a Jewish friend on the phone, who had phoned to see how I am, and she went in to talk about the war

.She is very critical of Netanyahu and the Israeli government. She thinks that (apart from disagreeing entirely with the right wing government) that Israel should have taken time to give careful consideration to its strategy.

She said that mass and forced transfer of people whilst cutting off the vital necessities and resources of life, and at the same time attacking those fleeing and all the time destroying their homes is a war crime - no excuse can possibly justify a supposed civilised country doing what it is doing. She is terrified that the outcome from such horror will never be a good one, and something that she is frightened will backfire badly on the Jewish people.

Frankly, I don’t know any more I sit and watch (much less now) with utter disbelief at what is unfolding.

Yes, same for my friends, and in fact a massive proportion of the Jews resident in Israel or who still have adult children and grandchildren there.

Some of my friends moved away a few years back- as they could see that this is what Netanyahu would do to Gaza as soon as Hamas gave him the excuse. But some of their children, grandchildren, relatives and friends are still there. They believe Netanyahu deliberately ignored the vast amount of intelligence he was given- to give him validity around the world for the destruction of the Palestinians of Gaza and the final take-over of that land.

Fleurpepper

Katie59

I don’t think a “sovereign state” is on the agenda at all, the West Bank could theoretically become that with secure borders, I doubt that would prevent attacks on Israel.

Until the Arab world acknowledges Israel’s right to exist I don’t see anything other than armed isolation.

The right to exist is one thing. Nakbar was brutal and cruel in the extreme- but it could have been accepted eventually.

The right to constant, rampant, cruel, inhumane, destructive and ILLEGAL expansion is totally another.

Hamas has been bombing Israel for years and years.

Israel has a right to defend itself.

Surely the right to defend has to comply with the law? The US and other countries have agreed that Israel has to defend herself but are stressing that defence must stay within the law. No one on GN as far as I see, supports the atrocities committed by Hamas but it concerns me to see those vile actions being used to excuse what is happening in Gaza. Two wrongs never make a right.

Israel surely need to accept the rights of Palestinians and stop herding them like animals off their lands and into ghettos .
Israel has been ignoring UN resolutions for decades and NOTHING has been done .WHY?
Until Israel accepts the BORDERS it was given in 1948 there will be no peace ,no other country gets away with throwing people off their homelands and building on it ...do they?

Plenty of people were throwing Jews off their land from the late 40s to the 70s. 900.000 Jews were forced to leave their homes.

Exodus from the Muslim world. So some research. Its shocking

paddyanne54 I think that when people have voted for a terrorist organisation, and then country and it’s citizens are complicit in hiding said terror organisation in this instance Hamas they lose the moral high ground.

After the heinous crimes and butchery committed by Hamas on 7/10 Israel has no choice but to do all they can to eliminate Hamas from the face of the world.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years, and yet once again they are being taunted for their religion.

just wait until the terrorists, in hiding in the uk, make their appearances for isis. A ticking time bomb. They want world control

AGAA4

The cynic in me wonders who will benefit from this war. Who will gain financially at the cost of innocent lives.

Those involved in the arms trade in any way.

Though this might not be what you mean?

GrannyGravy13

paddyanne54 I think that when people have voted for a terrorist organisation, and then country and it’s citizens are complicit in hiding said terror organisation in this instance Hamas they lose the moral high ground.

After the heinous crimes and butchery committed by Hamas on 7/10 Israel has no choice but to do all they can to eliminate Hamas from the face of the world.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years, and yet once again they are being taunted for their religion.

I think that your last sentence is unfortunate. Or perhaps you would like to qualify as to who you mean?

There is a radio programme on from 13.45-14.00 each , this week called Understand, Israel and the Palestinians. Having just listened to it, I think it's worth listening to. Also available on BBC Sounds obviously.

Radio 4

fancythat

AGAA4

The cynic in me wonders who will benefit from this war. Who will gain financially at the cost of innocent lives.

Those involved in the arms trade in any way.

Though this might not be what you mean?

This isn’t about money, this is about ideology, extreme Islam is expanding by violence in many countries.

If you want me to name some I will, 10 should be easy

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

paddyanne54 I think that when people have voted for a terrorist organisation, and then country and it’s citizens are complicit in hiding said terror organisation in this instance Hamas they lose the moral high ground.

After the heinous crimes and butchery committed by Hamas on 7/10 Israel has no choice but to do all they can to eliminate Hamas from the face of the world.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years, and yet once again they are being taunted for their religion.

I think that your last sentence is unfortunate. Or perhaps you would like to qualify as to who you mean?

You have been in this thread from the beginning Whitewavemark2 there have been numerous posts explaining the persecution of Jews going back to the beginning of time.

In Germany over the past week, Jews have had stars painted in their doors.

The antisemitic chants at the pro-Palestinian marches etc.,

Windows smashed in London of Jewish businesses.

Enough qualification for you?

foxie48

Katie59

“. According to Jennifer Jefferis, a Middle East expert at Georgetown University who spoke to the BBC last week, Hamas consistently polls over 50 per cent (more than any other party) across Gaza and the West Bank.”

If this is true then to means that the majority of Palestinians want to destroy Israel so my sympathy with Palestine is less.

It may well be that Hamas intimidate the civilian population into supporting them, the same way that ISIS did, so those polls may not be an accurate representation.

I'm totally confused by this. Here's the Wiki for Elections in Palestine for anyone who has the time to make sense of it but to me it doesn't look as if there have been any recent elections in Gaza, West Bank or for the whole Palestine. Busy morning so would welcome an input by anyone who has the time. TIA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine

Does she mean polls?

If you were asked in the street in Gaza if you supported Hamas or not, how would you answer?!!

Quite honestly, what does she expect from a poll?

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

paddyanne54 I think that when people have voted for a terrorist organisation, and then country and it’s citizens are complicit in hiding said terror organisation in this instance Hamas they lose the moral high ground.

After the heinous crimes and butchery committed by Hamas on 7/10 Israel has no choice but to do all they can to eliminate Hamas from the face of the world.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years, and yet once again they are being taunted for their religion.

I think that your last sentence is unfortunate. Or perhaps you would like to qualify as to who you mean?

What is unfortunate in mentioning the fact that Jews have been persecuted for years.
I think your the one who should qualify

I am horrified by the murder of a little American Palestinian boy in the USA and the attempted murder of his mother.

This little innocent, born into the freedom of the United States, was murdered by the landlord of their flat simply because he was Muslim and because of this conflict that is going on thousands of miles from his home. 😥

A hate crime against a child. 😡

RIP little Wadea Al-Fayoume

Kate59
The Americans are the last people I would ask for opinions/ facts on the Middle East. It’s us they come to for intel.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

paddyanne54 I think that when people have voted for a terrorist organisation, and then country and it’s citizens are complicit in hiding said terror organisation in this instance Hamas they lose the moral high ground.

After the heinous crimes and butchery committed by Hamas on 7/10 Israel has no choice but to do all they can to eliminate Hamas from the face of the world.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years, and yet once again they are being taunted for their religion.

I think that your last sentence is unfortunate. Or perhaps you would like to qualify as to who you mean?

You have been in this thread from the beginning Whitewavemark2 there have been numerous posts explaining the persecution of Jews going back to the beginning of time.

In Germany over the past week, Jews have had stars painted in their doors.

The antisemitic chants at the pro-Palestinian marches etc.,

Windows smashed in London of Jewish businesses.

Enough qualification for you?

I read your sentence as suggesting that people on GN are taunting the Jewish people and thought it an unfortunate way of putting it as I don’t think that you meant that.

I think that we can all agree that we are all aware of the persecution that people of the Jewish faith have suffered over the millennia, and that they have every right to live their life in peace and free from fear. But I am of the opinion that they will never do so with the type of hard right government Natenhayu represents. Looking at what is happening in Gaza at the moment is bad enough and they haven’t yet sent in the army. It will be carnage and Israel is already guilty of war crimes in Gaza, as are Hamas in Israel.

Israel is the powerful military state in the area, and it is incumbent on them imo to, whilst clearing Hamas to encourage and identify Palestinian leaders in order to actively pursue a sovereign Palestinian state.

I support no side - but I do support the people living in that violent maelstrom who are so badly served by their leaders.

Whitewavemark2

I think that much of the world would like to see the end if Hamas, but bodies are much easier to get rid of then ideas, hearts and minds.

Israel will never be secure until it wins Palestinian hearts and minds and the only way to do that is to show that they are in deadly earnest to give the Palestinians a thriving completely sovereign state, to prove that they will never ever, ever land grab and to set up domestic laws to prevent it.

They should be actively pursuing that goal even as they bomb Gaza to rubble.

I believe this is true.

When Natenyahu goes, he will go, he is likely to be replaced by an even harder line leader whatever the international opinion is, the Israelis are incensed by this attack, they are in no mood to elect a moderate.