Labour has won both byelections

LizzieDrip

It’s interesting how the media jumps on this yet there was very little comment about Sunak telling the Israeli PM, at a press conference, ‘I hope you win’!

Indeed.

Seriously - this is such a tricky situation (understatement alert) that whatever anyone says can be twisted or make to sound partisan. Not to be supportive to either side can seem heartless, as atrocities are happening across the board. What can politicians say when speaking to a representative of either country who is reporting mass slaughter, other than to sympathise?

It’s interesting how the media jumps on this yet there was very little comment about Sunak telling the Israeli PM, at a press conference, ‘I hope you win’!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/24/starmer-gravely-misrepresented-meeting-say-muslim-leaders-in-wales

Starmer ‘gravely misrepresented’ meeting, say Muslim leaders in Wales
The South Wales Islamic Centre apologised for ‘hurt and confusion’ caused by hosting Labour leader in light of his comments over Israel-Hamas conflict

Doodledog

I wish it did. I appreciate that intentions can be overtaken by circumstances, but I would like to see a formal review (maybe annually) in which a government is held to account, and a score given to PMs at the end of their tenure - a bit like the way they believe in inspections and league tables for schools and universities.

An annual audit. Excellent idea.

Pandering to war criminals
Stop voting for one of the lesser evils and demand better.

I should check spelling before posting

Yet more resignations from Labour

It looks like there are consequences pandering to ear criminals and dehumanising an entire people.
punishment of Palestinian people

Fifteen Labour officers have resigned over party rules about responding to the conflict in Gaza.

Nine officers in a Glasgow ward, including a Labour peer, and six in Edinburgh stood down.

The Glasgow Kelvin officers accused Scottish Labour of "stifling democracy" after a motion calling for an end to military action was ruled out of order.

Scottish Labour said it condemned Hamas's actions and the collective punishment of Palestinian people.

In Glasgow's Kelvin Labour Party, chairman Jim Mackechnie and Labour Peer Baroness Bryan resigned alongside seven others including the secretary, policy officer and trades union liaison officer.

They had submitted a motion urging Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar to call for a cessation of Israeli military action, the establishment of a humanitarian corridor and the release of hostages.

The very least we can do is stop voting for one of the rooms evils and demand better.

Doodledog

I wish it did. I appreciate that intentions can be overtaken by circumstances, but I would like to see a formal review (maybe annually) in which a government is held to account, and a score given to PMs at the end of their tenure - a bit like the way they believe in inspections and league tables for schools and universities.

Isn't the Liaison Committee, which questions the Pm 2 or 3 times a year, supposed to do something like that? Hold them to account..

Mind you, Johnson is devoid of any feeling of responsibility, shame or obligation, so it was easy for him to ignore it.

Yup, I think a public inspection report would be excellent

I wish it did. I appreciate that intentions can be overtaken by circumstances, but I would like to see a formal review (maybe annually) in which a government is held to account, and a score given to PMs at the end of their tenure - a bit like the way they believe in inspections and league tables for schools and universities.

Well after the last gala performance by BJ, how can anyone think there’s anything at all binding in an election promise? It doesn’t have any legal basis does it?

Starmer has not yet made promises to the electorate, so how can he have broken them?

Katie59

He not going to win the Gaza issue because the Muslims also support abolishing the Israeli state, beyond helping civilian aid the UK cannot influence events.

This is a complete lie, most Muslims simply want a two state solution and some of the land Israel has stolen returned to them. And some of the UN resolutions Israel ignores implemented en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

He not going to win the Gaza issue because the Muslims also support abolishing the Israeli state, beyond helping civilian aid the UK cannot influence events.

Glorianny

Oh I want a democratic Labour, but that means knowing when you vote for someone they will stick to the promises they made when they wanted your vote. Sadly Starmer can't do that.
The point about him alienating the Muslim vote is that it could cost seats. (And it isn't just Muslims who think he's wrong about this, there are more and more people supporting Palestinians)

I’d be gutted if he stuck to what he pledged in 2019. The world has moved on, he has learned from experience which of his pledges are achievable and which aren’t, and amended them accordingly, and he’s made the party electable.
The stance Starmer has taken on Palestine is the same as that of the other mainstream parties, so you are free to take your pick Glorianny and Grany, as are the rest of the electorate, including Muslim members of the community.

Oh I want a democratic Labour, but that means knowing when you vote for someone they will stick to the promises they made when they wanted your vote. Sadly Starmer can't do that.
The point about him alienating the Muslim vote is that it could cost seats. (And it isn't just Muslims who think he's wrong about this, there are more and more people supporting Palestinians)

I think that we have to accept that, right or wrong, truth or not proven, any way Grany can have a dig at Starmer, she will.

The extremes on both left and right are constantly trying to move us to a less democratic system. The most extreme don't want democracy at all.

We can see that some on here don't want democratic Labour; the want pure Socialism. In the same way the recent borrowers of the Conservative name don't want democracy, they just want wealth driven Oligarchy.

Grany

Doodledog

Oh come on! Whatever anyone says about the war in Gaza will upset one side or the other. It doesn’t mean Keir is failing as a leader. Sunak has been criticised too on that score. Anyone who speaks about it will be criticised as will a senior politician who says nothing.

But you don't side just with occupier Israel who are committing war crimes, collective punishment on Palistinians he has been told what he has said is against international law. Muslims are rightly angry.

Your partisan approach takes this difficult situation no further. Your dislike and rejection of Starmer is well rehearsed .

Any politician who speaks or remains silent will be criticised.

Doodledog

Oh come on! Whatever anyone says about the war in Gaza will upset one side or the other. It doesn’t mean Keir is failing as a leader. Sunak has been criticised too on that score. Anyone who speaks about it will be criticised as will a senior politician who says nothing.

But you don't side just with occupier Israel who are committing war crimes, collective punishment on Palistinians he has been told what he has said is against international law. Muslims are rightly angry.

Oh come on! Whatever anyone says about the war in Gaza will upset one side or the other. It doesn’t mean Keir is failing as a leader. Sunak has been criticised too on that score. Anyone who speaks about it will be criticised as will a senior politician who says nothing.

KS stance on the Israel-Gaza war has upset a lot of Muslims He is failing as a leader. www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-labour-starmer-gaza-betrayal-leader-failing-shows?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Social_Traffic&utm_content=ap_ddxa12wvy2

Absolutely, compromise is good as long as it’s moderate compromise, so often it turns out to be the opposite.

NannyC1

Joseann
So you probably"won't vote" what a dishonour to the women that died that you have the right to vote. Many women in other countries are beaten for trying to vote. Yet you throw yours away so casually.

Casually implies carelessly or with indifference NannyCl. Neither are correct here, given the time and effort I give to trying to find the best course of action.

Katie59

DaisyAnneReturns

In what way are we similar to Northern Ireland, Katie?

Of the 100 countries in the world that use PR, only two use the STV. Northern Ireland uses FPTP when, as part of the UK, it votes for seats in Parliamant. It only uses STV for it's internal election.

The majority of countries, 74 of the 100, use the Party List system.

For there own reasons, the Conservatives offered AV (STV by another name). With the only countries using that being Ireland and Malta, you have to ask why, and whether that is the system that would be offered in the future.

NI was an example of how a small party can prevent a government from making the decisions that it needs to, Theresa May was hamstrung by the Unionists.

So why did the Conservatives offered a similar system?

Hopefully, we can have a better discussion before we vote again, with Citizens Juries to advise government. Ireland has certainly showed that they can work.

Katie59

DaisyAnneReturns

In what way are we similar to Northern Ireland, Katie?

Of the 100 countries in the world that use PR, only two use the STV. Northern Ireland uses FPTP when, as part of the UK, it votes for seats in Parliamant. It only uses STV for it's internal election.

The majority of countries, 74 of the 100, use the Party List system.

For there own reasons, the Conservatives offered AV (STV by another name). With the only countries using that being Ireland and Malta, you have to ask why, and whether that is the system that would be offered in the future.

NI was an example of how a small party can prevent a government from making the decisions that it needs to, Theresa May was hamstrung by the Unionists.

That can equally apply if the party of government is divided. Tory PMs over the past few years have been hamstrung by the ERG. It hasn't made for good decision making.