Previous Tory voters

Thank you gangy5.

Sadly, it is not just big business they are wedded to, but the amassinging of their individual wealth, no matter what they do to others to achieve this.

They only support business in the spin the wheel sense; the "let's not actually get our hands dirty" way. The SMEs, whose owners put everything on the line to grow a business that might become the largest employer in the area, have had little from them. This ignorance of the backbone of society, while setting up a Court of favorites in the HoP has been sickening to watch.

I am beginning to see some real truth in Place not Politics, a devolution downwards so decisions are made by the people, for the people. The government, on the other hand should be obliged by law to make it possible for all parts of the country to share equally the revenues from taxation.

But this is about Conservatism so I look forward to hearing their "way forward" in our benighted country.

Were SMEs not well supported during the pandemic? Perhaps you could explain what support SMEs are not getting, but in your view should DAR?

Germanshepherdsmum

Were SMEs not well supported during the pandemic? Perhaps you could explain what support SMEs are not getting, but in your view should DAR?

Myself and DH own a SME the support offered during the multiple lockdowns was both quick and generous.

This was a lifeline to many who without it would have gone to the wall.

Thanks GG. I hoped you would comment.

I am pleased for you GrannyGravy. In extremis they got something right.

However, I am currently watching small businessess go into liquidation at a rate I haven't seen before I my life (although, for some of it I wouldn't have known)

I think you are very lucky not to be directly paid by the government for what you do. Hopefully you will continue to be a star shining in the darkness.

What are the reasons for these businesses going into liquidation DAR? Who is suffering as a result of being directly paid by the government, and why?

But you are happy to tell us how great your Party is without this knowledge (and how despicable large parts of the population are) so why should I spoil your imaginary world GSM

Hint: you could get some actual knowledge from outside your culture group by doing some research. I'm not keen to sign up as a slave even though this lot think slave labour is okay - as long as they are the modern day Barons.

I have never said that the party I support (of which I am not a member) is ‘great’, and I don’t live in an imaginary world. You made a statement and I asked you what you meant by it. Presumably you have facts already or you wouldn’t have made the statement? I’m not asking you to do any research. I would appreciate an answer to my question.

OP, please tell us where you would "quite happily make many cuts in the current tory budget".

In a GE it's common to judge the outgoing government on its record and opposition parties on their manifestos. I don't think it's enough to snuffle through opposition policies picking holes. What is about the tory party's record that impresses people so much?

However, I am currently watching small businessess go into liquidation at a rate I haven't seen before I my life.

We have seen the same in France and Italy since the Pandemic. Areas that used to be bustling, in shopping arcades and on industrial estates, now deserted or “for sale.”
My sister in law in Germany has lost her job due to the firm’s closure just after Covid.
It’s been hard all round.

DaisyAnneReturns

I am pleased for you GrannyGravy. In extremis they got something right.

However, I am currently watching small businessess go into liquidation at a rate I haven't seen before I my life (although, for some of it I wouldn't have known)

I think you are very lucky not to be directly paid by the government for what you do. Hopefully you will continue to be a star shining in the darkness.

Small businesses go to the wall for many different reasons.

Bad management

To avoid paying tax and debts owed (restarting using a different sometimes family members name)

Change in purchasing habits (online)

Not reading the market they are targeting.

Just saying you are seeing small business going at an alarming g rate, without knowing the reasons doesn’t much water.

There is an implication that this is somehow the fault of the government - I have asked DAR for clarification but none has been forthcoming.

GrannyGravy13

Germanshepherdsmum

Were SMEs not well supported during the pandemic? Perhaps you could explain what support SMEs are not getting, but in your view should DAR?

Myself and DH own a SME the support offered during the multiple lockdowns was both quick and generous.

This was a lifeline to many who without it would have gone to the wall.

Support was offered quite quickly here as well. Good effort, I believe.

Germanshepherdsmum

There is an implication that this is somehow the fault of the government - I have asked DAR for clarification but none has been forthcoming.

I received absolutely no government help during lockdown, despite not being able to live on the occupational pension I had, which didn't even cover my rent. I was self-employed to make up my earnings, but everything collapsed when public exams were cancelled overnight. My previous year's earnings from self-employment were less than my pension, so I didn't qualify for any help. There were about three and a half million people in a similar situation.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m a previous Conservative voter who has every intention of continuing to be one in the next GE. In local elections I vote for our current LibDem chap simply because he’s excellent at dealing with local issues. I wouldn’t vote for him in a GE, not wanting a LibDem (or Labour) government.

Exactly the same for me. 100%

The post was about SMEs growstuff, not self-employed individuals. Help was given to businesses so that they didn’t fold, and staff received furlough payments. I’m not sure what you expect to have been done for people in your position. There are and we’re many self employed people who couldn’t work during lockdowns.

I am going to agree again with DaisyAnneReturns as to why my support for the Tories is no longer. Slave labour is something they are happy to perpetuate, as long as the cogs of the country are turning, made possible by persons at the bottom of the pile.

Slave labour?

Germanshepherdsmum

Slave labour?

It’s what has gone in as long as I remember, where those at the bottom of the pile are expected to work for as little as possible, no matter which government is in power.

Working for minimum wage (anything less is illegal) is not slave labour.

I think many people are unaware of the number of workers in this country who are not given a work contract, are on zero hours arrangements and are paid below the minimum wage.
In past years Labour has supported the working class and currently I am not detecting much sign of that.

Employers are obliged by law to provide a written contract of employment and to pay at least the minimum wage. Some don’t and, having legislated for these matters, I don’t see what more the government is supposed to do. There was much discussion about zero hours contracts a while ago and it transpired that many people found them convenient and didn’t want them to be banned.

I think many people are unaware of the number of workers in this country who are not given a work contract, are on zero hours arrangements and are paid below the minimum wage.

This is a crime. As is theft, injuring someone, domestic abuse etc. is it being suggested that if the government doesn't hunt out every criminal and prosecute them they are complicit in the crime?

Three local food businesses have closed in my area, but for different reasons, the turkey farmer rented his land and the land was wanted back for housebuilding, ill health and staff shortages contributed to one and energy costs and rocketing wages as businesses fought to find trained staff did for the other.

During lockdown DD got paid furlough money, but her employer eventually went down as a direct consequence of Brexit. They were part of the process that got money from the EU Horizon Scientific research fund to research centres in the UK and as we know, despite promises, it is only in the last few months that the UK has finally agreed re-access to these funds. That delay put hundreds of researchers out of jobs.

All these silly 'class' descriptions. Could someone tell me exactly what makes someone 'working' or 'middle' class.

What about my self-employed kitchen fitter, whom we know well. He, like many other local tradesmen lives in a large and pleasant house, has holidays abroad and a good standard of living, not very different to my children who are in academia and management consultancy and could not afford to buy his house.

Sorry I havent been back to this thread in a while.
Real life sort of got in the way.

And sorry winterwhite I will do this at some point too. OP, please tell us where you would "quite happily make many cuts in the current tory budget".

DaisyAnneReturns

So basically fancythat, what you want is an extreme right-wing government that doesn't do democracy.

Isn't that what they have been trying to get to for 13 years? And isn't that what people are turning their back on in favour of democracy?

You keep pushing these policies. I will personally be very glad to see the death of the party of wealth driven Oligarchy and the more you push your chosen policies the more, I believe, that is likely to happen.

I thought I partially understaood this post, and now realise I dont.

Like someone else on here, I wonder whether different phrases and words mean different things to different people?

Do you think Thatcher would be called extreme right wing government nowadays?
I think at heart I am a Thatcherite[again, if that is the right word which may well mean different things to different people]. that is, I had a look recently at some of the things she said[not counting her last 2 years in office] and find myself agreeing with much of it.

And I am totally unsure what democracy means nowadays.
I thought it just meant people vote, and the governement is then democratic.

I didnt understand your 3rd paragraph at all.
I am starting to feel out of the loop as regards the current meanings of political words. Perhaps it is just me.