Previous Tory voters

Germanshepherdsmum

Employers are obliged by law to provide a written contract of employment and to pay at least the minimum wage. Some don’t and, having legislated for these matters, I don’t see what more the government is supposed to do. There was much discussion about zero hours contracts a while ago and it transpired that many people found them convenient and didn’t want them to be banned.

Surely employers who don't are committing an offence and should be prosecuted. Or did the Tories simply leave it as a civil matter so that employers could not be criminalised?

They are committing a criminal offence and should be prosecuted.

Germanshepherdsmum

They are committing a criminal offence and should be prosecuted.

Who is going to report and prosecute them?

Well it’s not down to the government! HMRC.

All payroll now runs in real time so an under payment of the minimum wage would be picked up. A bit of responsibility on the employee also applies to report any underpayments.

Returning to the subject of this thread Previous Tory Voters
--- I have been a Tory voter for 6 decades and am now to become a previous Tory voter. Looking back I 'm not at all sure what my reasons have been that have made me a steadfast supporter of the party. Certainly their performance over the past 13 years has been abysmal.
I also am not planning to vote Labour who are now not differing that much from the Tories. I can see that Kier Starmer is a principled man but unfortunately is lacking in qualities to make a good Prime Minister.
It is a pitty that voting has now been reduced to this or that!!
Like many------I don't want either.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well it’s not down to the government! HMRC.

Is not HMRC a government department, directed by the government via legislation?

A government department that has been starved of funds just like all other government agencies? Can they even afford to be chasing up and prosecuting the underpayers along with all their other responsibilities?

A bit of responsibility on the employee also applies to report any underpayments.

And how many employees struggling on poverty wages are going to be brave enough to do that?

HMRC is comprised of civil servants. Their actions are overseen by the Professional Standards Committee. They are not directed by the government.

MaizieD

^A bit of responsibility on the employee also applies to report any underpayments.^

And how many employees struggling on poverty wages are going to be brave enough to do that?

With such a buoyant jobs market at the moment the employees certainly have more choice.

Germanshepherdsmum

HMRC is comprised of civil servants. Their actions are overseen by the Professional Standards Committee. They are not directed by the government.

Bit naive if you don’t mind me saying so.

The government minister directs the focus, controls resources and passes legislation that prescribes civil service actions etc.

Germanshepherdsmum

HMRC is comprised of civil servants. Their actions are overseen by the Professional Standards Committee. They are not directed by the government.

Err, where does the tax legislation which they implement come from?

Proscribes!

I’m far from naive wwm. HMRC may be a creature of government and they work within a statutory framework but the government does not direct their decision to prosecute.

A bit of integrity would be a good start. Oh and some honesty, as far as our current political system will allow.

rosie1959

MaizieD

A bit of responsibility on the employee also applies to report any underpayments.

And how many employees struggling on poverty wages are going to be brave enough to do that?

With such a buoyant jobs market at the moment the employees certainly have more choice.

This 'buoyant jobs market' seems a bit like Schrodinger's jobs market at the moment.

If we have supposedly full employment (bearing in mind that the govt. criteria for being 'in employment' is working 2 hours per fortnight) why are so many people in work struggling with low pay and part time hours?

Scarcity of workers should lead to higher wages being offered to secure them and fewer people in low paid work...

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m far from naive wwm. HMRC may be a creature of government and they work within a statutory framework but the government does not direct their decision to prosecute.

No, they just limit their ability to do so by underfunding them...

You, of all people, must be aware that prosecution (and the investigation leading up to it) is a very expensive business..

Indeed it can be Maizie - but there’s a huge difference between the cost of prosecuting a sophisticated tax evader (into which huge resources are put, and to good effect) and the cost of prosecuting the owner of the local factory who is paying less than minimum wage.

DaisyAnneReturns

So basically fancythat, what you want is an extreme right-wing government that doesn't do democracy.

Isn't that what they have been trying to get to for 13 years? And isn't that what people are turning their back on in favour of democracy?

You keep pushing these policies. I will personally be very glad to see the death of the party of wealth driven Oligarchy and the more you push your chosen policies the more, I believe, that is likely to happen.

Extreme right, really. Mussolini was extreme right, cant see any of that ideology in this country.

The HMRC have a team of people whose job is to check on employers underpaying staff.

The problem is that most of the companies underpaying are in the dark economy, small fast food outlets and the like. In some cities clothing sweatshops operate under the radar in unsafe premises, underpaying staff and paying neither national Insurance, nor minimum wage.

Those in these kinds of jobs are those closest to the bottom of society. They generally lack the skills or knowledge to complain to anyone and are often so grateful to have a job, any job, that they will do nothing to risk losing it - and lose it they will if they complain because if HMTC come looking the company will close down and put everyone out of work.

Many of these employees don’t even speak English - especially the women. If they learned the language they could have both choices and a voice. But despite having lived here for many years they need an interpreter. I find that unacceptable.

I have just picked up something that Maizie said on the previous page
If we have supposedly full employment (bearing in mind that the govt. criteria for being 'in employment' is working 2 hours per fortnight) why are so many people in work struggling with low pay and part time hours? Scarcity of workers should lead to higher wages being offered to secure them and fewer people in low paid work...

The problem is that the people struggling with low pay and part time jobs do not have the skills to fill the jobs where there are scarcities.

In my area, two local food businesses have closed down because of a scarcity of trained bakers and butchers. In one case the wages that trained bakers could command, together with rocketing energy prices closed a flourishing business down. If the owner paid what had become the going wage he was going to have to put prices up so much, he would lose most of his busines. So after 30 years , he closed down.

We have an exceptionally low unemployment rate in this area, and plenty of vacancies, but they are mainly high tech or social care.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thanks twinnytwin. I also don’t trust Labour not to raise higher taxes on the backs of those of us who have worked hard for what we’ve got.

You see tax as a burden then?

I do.

Germanshepherdsmum

I do.

So I guess you were happy to pay for your children to be privately educated, to pay to go privately rather than NHS, and so on?