Previous Tory voters

Going back to your post at 14.44 yesterday, MOnica

The problem is that the people struggling with low pay and part time jobs do not have the skills to fill the jobs where there are scarcities.

In GSM world these people are thoroughly deserving of being unable to feed and house themselves, or to keep warm in winter, because they have chosen not to make an effort to improve themselves. 😱

Give it a rest DAR. I have not praised myself. I have merely said that I worked very hard. Fact.

People in low paid work work extremely hard. If you read 'fast pace working environment' it means you are expected to work to a very high target rate and if you don't meet that rate or have an off day you are disciplined and sometimes lose your job as they will just employ someone fitter and quicker. People go home exhausted at the end of their shifts and I imagine they have very little time outside of their family lives to achieve anything more but at least they work, right?

I would have loved to clock off at the end of a shift.

well you always had to option of taking lower paid work with shift patterns

As a single mother with a mortgage and little, often no, money from my ex - yes that would have been a great move.

JaneJudge

People in low paid work work extremely hard. If you read 'fast pace working environment' it means you are expected to work to a very high target rate and if you don't meet that rate or have an off day you are disciplined and sometimes lose your job as they will just employ someone fitter and quicker. People go home exhausted at the end of their shifts and I imagine they have very little time outside of their family lives to achieve anything more but at least they work, right?

True JaneJudge. It must be many times more stressful to be working in a low paid and unrewarding role from which no escape is possible for you than to be stressed because you are working to a goal that will ultimately be an escape route. Not everybody can find the escape route, for a very complex range of reasons. I don’t think we should be judging, everybody’s circumstances are different.

Germanshepherdsmum

As a single mother with a mortgage and little, often no, money from my ex - yes that would have been a great move.

this isn't unique to you, it applies to lots of women in a variety of job roles

Sometimes there is no escape route because no matter how hard they work, a person can't scrape together the thousands needed to pay for the professional qualification needed to get that well paid job.

Getting a professional qualification needn’t cost a lot of money Parsley. In my case it was the cost of the textbooks, old exam papers to see what was required, and fees to enter exams (not a lot). Then I was able to get a (paid) training contract. That was many years ago but it is still possible to get into various professions without huge expense other than your time and effort if, like me me, you’re working full time and have to study outside working hours. Not medicine obviously! Law now offers apprenticeships which pay you while you learn. Where there’s a will there’s often a way.

Years ago it was possible but not so much now.

I disagree Parsley. You can get into, for instance, law or accountancy without a degree and be paid while you learn. As a woman, a secretary, in the 70s I had to prove myself by passing all my exams before being offered a training contract. Nowadays firms have boxes to tick to avoid discrimination, and the law welcomes people with actual life experience.

Germanshepherdsmum

Give it a rest DAR. I have not praised myself. I have merely said that I worked very hard. Fact.

The only way those of us who do not know you can have any opinion about you is from how you post GSM. It is you who keep trying to make us see you in a particular way and therefore asking us to form an opinion.

To me it sounds as if, like many others, you have had your ups and downs and have worked hard to get through the difficult times and yoy see the outcomes as success. However, that is balanced with your attitude to others who could not do that.

Of the people I have known, those who have been uncommonly successful all have been aware, and said, how lucky they have been and all have paid that luck forwards not ridiculed those who haven't had your idea of success.

You ask us to have a specific opinion of you. But when we form our own you want us to give it a rest. You can't have it both ways.

It’s a fact that you are less likely to obtain even basic qualifications and social skills without parental support, so accessing professional qualifications is beyond the reach of so many Germanshepherdsmum. In reality you wouldn’t have become a legal secretary in the first place if you hadn’t had those advantages. Working in any office environment isn’t possible for so many people.

Local Colleges of Education, or whatever they are called now ofer a huge range of courses, non of which are particcularly expensive.

Companies offer apprentices and can also offer opportunities for further study.

If you really want something there is usually a way of getting tt.

I discovered that a degree and membership of a professional body based on experience cut no ice without the relevant professional qualification so I got it, while juggling two small children, a part time job, a DH, whose job made me a one parent family for half the year and a 5 hour round trip including walking 5 miles to get to the insitute offering me the qualification on day release, finding the money to pay for it counted for little compared with the logistics of the course plus fares and childcare and all the home study.

It is possible to get educational loans, or commercial loans to cover education and training.

I have friends, who at all levels and all ages have trained and retrained despite all kinds of problems because they really wanted to do something.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I don’t ask you to have any opinion of me DAR, but I do ask you not to take any possible opportunity to be rude to me. I have not ridiculed anyone - if you believe I have please tell me where.
I wouldn’t have become a legal secretary without paying attention and applying myself at school Casdon. All children are obliged by law to attend school unless they are ‘home schooled’. The rest is up to them. I had no special advantages. My husband often speaks of a lad he employed who was then at university. He attended the interview in a frayed shirt and ill fitting suit probably bought from a charity shop. He was black and one of a large working class family. He had no quiet place to do his homework at home and he had to help with the younger children. Nevertheless he worked hard at school and then at university and he proved to be an excellent employee. So it is entirely possible to achieve well if you apply yourself, no matter what your background.

‘The dissentitled’ DAR? What do you mean?

Local Colleges of Education, or whatever they are called now ofer a huge range of courses, non of which are particcularly expensive.

We are talking of destitution, here. Or trying to.

If you are destitute food, heating and housing are practically beyond your financial reach, let alone 'inexpensive' training courses.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t ask you to have any opinion of me DAR, but I do ask you not to take any possible opportunity to be rude to me. I have not ridiculed anyone - if you believe I have please tell me where.
I wouldn’t have become a legal secretary without paying attention and applying myself at school Casdon. All children are obliged by law to attend school unless they are ‘home schooled’. The rest is up to them. I had no special advantages. My husband often speaks of a lad he employed who was then at university. He attended the interview in a frayed shirt and ill fitting suit probably bought from a charity shop. He was black and one of a large working class family. He had no quiet place to do his homework at home and he had to help with the younger children. Nevertheless he worked hard at school and then at university and he proved to be an excellent employee. So it is entirely possible to achieve well if you apply yourself, no matter what your background.

You’re right in a sense Germanshepherdsmum, applying yourself is key. It really is the exception who is able to raise themself above the circumstances of their birth however, and the understanding that taking advantage of the educational opportunities can improve your earning capacity isn’t a given if a child receives no help or encouragement. Identifying exceptions who have achieved regardless doesn’t negate the reality for the vast majority.

Ooops. This isn't the 'destitution' thread, though the two do seem to have merged.

This is the 'everyone can be a star like me if they just put a bit of effort into it and those who don't try deserve every bit of misery coming to them' thread 😂

I have asked GNHQ to delete my last post as it wasn't intended as a direct answer to MOnica, but as a general comment. I'll repeat it here to hopefully make sense of replies when it's gone.

This thread seems to give a clear view of what "previous Tory voters" would want a wealth-driven oligarchy to do for the disentitled.

DaisyAnneReturns

I have asked GNHQ to delete my last post as it wasn't intended as a direct answer to MOnica, but as a general comment. I'll repeat it here to hopefully make sense of replies when it's gone.

^This thread seems to give a clear view of what "previous Tory voters" would want a wealth-driven oligarchy to do for the disentitled.^

It really is rather crass and lazy to lump together all previous Tory voters

A good teacher can be an inspiration - but I can recall one primary school teacher, and one A level teacher, who fell into that category. My son can recall one, with whom he remains in touch. Both my parents left school at 14 - they weren’t by any means unintelligent but that was the norm for working class people. I would be surprised if things are much different now in state education, except that the leaving age has been increased. It really is up to the individual - if they can’t see for themselves that with some effort on their part they could be one of those people with a good job, nice house and nice car, what is the government supposed to do about their attitude and lack of aspirations?

If you don't know GSM, I am not sure anyone can explain it to you.

I'm not surprised the to threads have crossed Maisie. We have a clear view that voting in a Tory government will bring with it a disentitlment to the basics of life and more. Without that you have government created destitution.