Previous Tory voters

Local Colleges of Education, or whatever they are called now ofer a huge range of courses, non of which are particcularly expensive.

We are talking of destitution, here. Or trying to.

If you are destitute food, heating and housing are practically beyond your financial reach, let alone 'inexpensive' training courses.

‘The dissentitled’ DAR? What do you mean?

I don’t ask you to have any opinion of me DAR, but I do ask you not to take any possible opportunity to be rude to me. I have not ridiculed anyone - if you believe I have please tell me where.
I wouldn’t have become a legal secretary without paying attention and applying myself at school Casdon. All children are obliged by law to attend school unless they are ‘home schooled’. The rest is up to them. I had no special advantages. My husband often speaks of a lad he employed who was then at university. He attended the interview in a frayed shirt and ill fitting suit probably bought from a charity shop. He was black and one of a large working class family. He had no quiet place to do his homework at home and he had to help with the younger children. Nevertheless he worked hard at school and then at university and he proved to be an excellent employee. So it is entirely possible to achieve well if you apply yourself, no matter what your background.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Local Colleges of Education, or whatever they are called now ofer a huge range of courses, non of which are particcularly expensive.

Companies offer apprentices and can also offer opportunities for further study.

If you really want something there is usually a way of getting tt.

I discovered that a degree and membership of a professional body based on experience cut no ice without the relevant professional qualification so I got it, while juggling two small children, a part time job, a DH, whose job made me a one parent family for half the year and a 5 hour round trip including walking 5 miles to get to the insitute offering me the qualification on day release, finding the money to pay for it counted for little compared with the logistics of the course plus fares and childcare and all the home study.

It is possible to get educational loans, or commercial loans to cover education and training.

I have friends, who at all levels and all ages have trained and retrained despite all kinds of problems because they really wanted to do something.

It’s a fact that you are less likely to obtain even basic qualifications and social skills without parental support, so accessing professional qualifications is beyond the reach of so many Germanshepherdsmum. In reality you wouldn’t have become a legal secretary in the first place if you hadn’t had those advantages. Working in any office environment isn’t possible for so many people.

Germanshepherdsmum

Give it a rest DAR. I have not praised myself. I have merely said that I worked very hard. Fact.

The only way those of us who do not know you can have any opinion about you is from how you post GSM. It is you who keep trying to make us see you in a particular way and therefore asking us to form an opinion.

To me it sounds as if, like many others, you have had your ups and downs and have worked hard to get through the difficult times and yoy see the outcomes as success. However, that is balanced with your attitude to others who could not do that.

Of the people I have known, those who have been uncommonly successful all have been aware, and said, how lucky they have been and all have paid that luck forwards not ridiculed those who haven't had your idea of success.

You ask us to have a specific opinion of you. But when we form our own you want us to give it a rest. You can't have it both ways.

I disagree Parsley. You can get into, for instance, law or accountancy without a degree and be paid while you learn. As a woman, a secretary, in the 70s I had to prove myself by passing all my exams before being offered a training contract. Nowadays firms have boxes to tick to avoid discrimination, and the law welcomes people with actual life experience.

Years ago it was possible but not so much now.

Getting a professional qualification needn’t cost a lot of money Parsley. In my case it was the cost of the textbooks, old exam papers to see what was required, and fees to enter exams (not a lot). Then I was able to get a (paid) training contract. That was many years ago but it is still possible to get into various professions without huge expense other than your time and effort if, like me me, you’re working full time and have to study outside working hours. Not medicine obviously! Law now offers apprenticeships which pay you while you learn. Where there’s a will there’s often a way.

Sometimes there is no escape route because no matter how hard they work, a person can't scrape together the thousands needed to pay for the professional qualification needed to get that well paid job.

Germanshepherdsmum

As a single mother with a mortgage and little, often no, money from my ex - yes that would have been a great move.

this isn't unique to you, it applies to lots of women in a variety of job roles

JaneJudge

People in low paid work work extremely hard. If you read 'fast pace working environment' it means you are expected to work to a very high target rate and if you don't meet that rate or have an off day you are disciplined and sometimes lose your job as they will just employ someone fitter and quicker. People go home exhausted at the end of their shifts and I imagine they have very little time outside of their family lives to achieve anything more but at least they work, right?

True JaneJudge. It must be many times more stressful to be working in a low paid and unrewarding role from which no escape is possible for you than to be stressed because you are working to a goal that will ultimately be an escape route. Not everybody can find the escape route, for a very complex range of reasons. I don’t think we should be judging, everybody’s circumstances are different.

As a single mother with a mortgage and little, often no, money from my ex - yes that would have been a great move.

well you always had to option of taking lower paid work with shift patterns

I would have loved to clock off at the end of a shift.

People in low paid work work extremely hard. If you read 'fast pace working environment' it means you are expected to work to a very high target rate and if you don't meet that rate or have an off day you are disciplined and sometimes lose your job as they will just employ someone fitter and quicker. People go home exhausted at the end of their shifts and I imagine they have very little time outside of their family lives to achieve anything more but at least they work, right?

Give it a rest DAR. I have not praised myself. I have merely said that I worked very hard. Fact.

Going back to your post at 14.44 yesterday, MOnica

The problem is that the people struggling with low pay and part time jobs do not have the skills to fill the jobs where there are scarcities.

In GSM world these people are thoroughly deserving of being unable to feed and house themselves, or to keep warm in winter, because they have chosen not to make an effort to improve themselves. 😱

Allsorts

Maisie, I can’t understand your attitude to National Debt. Does it matter where we owe it? You can’t continuously keep borrowing out of trouble. Just because we don’t own it a country, we owe it. I am sure if you Google it as I did it you will see to what and whom we owe the money, it’s a debt and needs paying.

I don't understand why you can't understand plain English, Allsorts.

1) A large part of it isn't debt at all because it was money created by the Bank of England. Call it 'printing money' if you like.

2) The rest is people's and institutions savings and investments. They don't want it paid back to 'clear the national debt.

In fact, they're mostly not even aware that it is 'the national debt'.

They might ask for some or all of it back if they want to spend it, but that is their choice. But mostly they leave it where it is because they want the interest (or the prizes) from it.

Investors and savers regard government stocks and savings accounts as a secure place to put their money because they know they will be repaid when they ask for it. It is the safest investment possible.

Some foreign countries or individuals hold UK. government bonds for exactly the same reasons, it's a safe investment.

It's not a debt, it's more like a bank account. Would you want your bank to suddenly insist on giving you back all the money from your account or accounts whether you wanted it or not?

M0nica

I do not think that most of us did work very long hours. Most people worked from 9.00am - 5-5.30 and then went home . That is why the peak of the rush hour everywhere was just before 9.00am and from 5.00-6.00pm

Of course some people at all levels of income did work long hours, but certainly not all. I worked 9.00-5.30, except in exceptional times when I worked early and at weekends, but only for occasional events.

I worked very long hours. Typically, 8-5 at school and another three hours every evening with five or six hours during the weekend. And don't start on school holidays ... I worked at least half of my time, including taking groups of children abroad, which was a 24/7 job. There were times when I did tutoring on top of a full-time job, just to make ends meet for my children and me. Apparently, I was idle and/or lacked aspirations .

And I've come across plenty of people who have two or three jobs - all co-ordinated in couples, so that one of them could do childcare. Idle and lacking aspirations? I think not!

Germanshepherdsmum

No growstuff, you’d better not. There’s nothing smug about saying you qualified by working at night for years after a full day’s work, cooking a meal and looking after a house and idle husband, and then, again after a full day’s work, looking after your child and working at night whilst they sleep to do the 70 hour week your job demands. It requires a pretty strong work ethic.

Much of someone's real character lies in what they don't say about themselves. Self-praise is the first sign of insecurity. Some things sound better if they don't come from you.

Allsorts

Maisie, I can’t understand your attitude to National Debt. Does it matter where we owe it? You can’t continuously keep borrowing out of trouble. Just because we don’t own it a country, we owe it. I am sure if you Google it as I did it you will see to what and whom we owe the money, it’s a debt and needs paying.

It does get paid back. The following is a very simplistic explanation. Jo Public puts money into premium bonds or national savings or buys govt stocks. That means that they are investing in the country in one way or another. The investors either receive an income or they win on the premium bonds. Eventually the investors withdraw their money at which point the country has paid them back.

Now for the not quite so simplistic. Towards the end of the 17thC a group of merchants lent money to the William 111 in order to fund his war against Louis X1V. This loan was eventually repaid.

Further loans were made in order to fund various wars during the 18thC, then the Napoleonic Wars, WW1 and WW2. The last repayments of the latter were made to Canada and the US on 31 December 2006.

In 2010 in the run up to the GE the Tories started talking about the National Debt and made quite a big thing abut it. At that time the UK percentage of GDP was 74, France 68, Germany 52, the US 74, Italy 112 and Japan 166. All countries have a national debt.

Obviously not all the funds come from Jo Public. They also come from pension and investment funds and other institutional lenders.

IMO Mrs T did a a great deal of harm when she told us that running the country was just like managing a household. Absolute nonsense. Nearly all businesses at some point need to borrow money in order to finance expansion. That loan is recorded on a company's balance sheet as a liability. The money paid into the bank account is an asset and is recorded as such. A very simple example of double entry book-keeping!

dayvidg

I have often voted Conservative, though also UKIP, Lib Dem and Green in recent years. Only if Labour fully commit to Proportional Representation would I consider voting for them, as I feel all majority Government over the years has been to detriment of the British people.

Just out of interest which system of proportional representation would you advocate. Remember we had a referendum on the subject not so very long ago and the chosen system didn’t seem to impress the voters at all.

Maisie, I can’t understand your attitude to National Debt. Does it matter where we owe it? You can’t continuously keep borrowing out of trouble. Just because we don’t own it a country, we owe it. I am sure if you Google it as I did it you will see to what and whom we owe the money, it’s a debt and needs paying.