Previous Tory voters

I had quite a number of jobs over my career, in a wide variety of firms and as I stood nose to nose with fellow commuters on tubes and trains it is quite clear that there were many, many people who worked similar hours. Why otherwise does any media talk about working patterns always talk of the standard 9.00-5.00? Not only that but it is common to deplore those who are forced to work long hours.

Incredibly lucky.

Extremely lucky.

M0nica

I do not think that most of us did work very long hours. Most people worked from 9.00am - 5-5.30 and then went home . That is why the peak of the rush hour everywhere was just before 9.00am and from 5.00-6.00pm

Of course some people at all levels of income did work long hours, but certainly not all. I worked 9.00-5.30, except in exceptional times when I worked early and at weekends, but only for occasional events.

Lucky you..

Bliss!

I do not think that most of us did work very long hours. Most people worked from 9.00am - 5-5.30 and then went home . That is why the peak of the rush hour everywhere was just before 9.00am and from 5.00-6.00pm

Of course some people at all levels of income did work long hours, but certainly not all. I worked 9.00-5.30, except in exceptional times when I worked early and at weekends, but only for occasional events.

No growstuff, you’d better not. There’s nothing smug about saying you qualified by working at night for years after a full day’s work, cooking a meal and looking after a house and idle husband, and then, again after a full day’s work, looking after your child and working at night whilst they sleep to do the 70 hour week your job demands. It requires a pretty strong work ethic.

Last figure I can find
s of the end of 2016, 27.6% of the national debt was owed to overseas governments and investors

Germanshepherdsmum

Who do you class as ‘the wealthiest in our society to whom increasing the highest rate of tax would not make a huge difference’ Dinahmo? I paid the highest rate of tax but was by no means one of the wealthiest people. Basically the harder I worked the more tax I paid.

Yes, there is often an element of luck or chance in life but many people set out to make their own luck. I did my time in local provincial firms whilst my son was at home. When he decided to make his life in London after university I moved to a partnership with a City firm which had approached me when he was a small child - I couldn’t consider commuting then because he was my priority, not my career, though the latter was essential to keeping the roof over our heads and putting food on the table. But I would not have had that initial approach had I not worked hard to gain a reputation in my chosen field of practice. And had I not devoted Lord knows how many evenings to studying in order to pass all my exams - without a degree my employer would not give me articles until I had done that - I would probably have remained a secretary until the day I retired. It’s called making an effort in order to get on in life.

Wow! As if the rest of didn't work hard for very long hours or make an effort!

I'd better not repeat "smug"!

Nothing is 'owed' to anyone else.

You used to be able to look up who owed what,
Havent been able to see that for years.

Back then anyway, and cant think it will have changed, it was amazing what countries owed to each other.

Allsorts

What a few years, any government would have had problems. I will vote in a general election as I usually do as I trust the other lot less. What ever happens it’s going to be years before we even start to pay off what we owe. Perhaps this governments should not have paid workers for being out of work like other countries, or carry on as normal, waiting for others to develop the vaccine.It’s easy being wise after the event.

What do you mean about waiting for others to develop the vaccine? The most widely used vaccine was developed in Germany and marketed by an American company.

Income tax is not the only tax, MOnica. Looking at income tax alone distorts the picture.

As it is, the top 10% of people in receipt of income, pay a slightly lower percentage of that income in tax than does the lowest 10% (govt. figures).

The 'middle' 80% pays a lower percentage than those at either end.

What ever happens it’s going to be years before we even start to pay off what we owe.

I assume you're talking about the so called 'national debt.

In which case, some £800 billion of it is 'owed' to the government by the government as it is money 'raised' by Quantitative Easing'. The Bank of England (which belongs to the nation/government) created that money to 'buy' government bonds as a means of putting money into circulation. It wasn't borrowed from anyone, it was pure money creation.

The rest of government 'borrowings' consist of money obtained by the sale of government bonds, or money invested by the public in National Savings accounts or Premium Bonds. The people and institutions who hold these bonds and savings don't want their money paid back to them, unless they want to cash in some of their savings/investments. They want the income they earn by way of interest , or wins on the premium bonds, and consider their investments to be safe because the government, contrary to popular belief, cannot go bankrupt. It can always pay its obligations. That's why people and institutions like to save and invest with the government because their money is safe.

Nothing is 'owed' to anyone else.

So who do you think we're have to pay off, Allsorts?

^ If Labour were to increase the highest rate of tax it would not make a huge difference to the wealthiest in our society but would to those less well off.^

If that were only so.
HMRC provides an illustrative guide to the direct impact of tax changes on revenues, which shows that: a 1p increase in the basic rate of income tax would raise £5.5bn in 2022/23 (0.2% of GDP), and a 1p increase in the higher rate would raise £1.3bn in 2022/23 (0.1% of GDP); publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmtreasy/664/66408.htm

What a few years, any government would have had problems. I will vote in a general election as I usually do as I trust the other lot less. What ever happens it’s going to be years before we even start to pay off what we owe. Perhaps this governments should not have paid workers for being out of work like other countries, or carry on as normal, waiting for others to develop the vaccine.It’s easy being wise after the event.

Who do you class as ‘the wealthiest in our society to whom increasing the highest rate of tax would not make a huge difference’ Dinahmo? I paid the highest rate of tax but was by no means one of the wealthiest people. Basically the harder I worked the more tax I paid.

Yes, there is often an element of luck or chance in life but many people set out to make their own luck. I did my time in local provincial firms whilst my son was at home. When he decided to make his life in London after university I moved to a partnership with a City firm which had approached me when he was a small child - I couldn’t consider commuting then because he was my priority, not my career, though the latter was essential to keeping the roof over our heads and putting food on the table. But I would not have had that initial approach had I not worked hard to gain a reputation in my chosen field of practice. And had I not devoted Lord knows how many evenings to studying in order to pass all my exams - without a degree my employer would not give me articles until I had done that - I would probably have remained a secretary until the day I retired. It’s called making an effort in order to get on in life.

I am in touch with people who currently would like to take their work grievances to tribunal and they are not employees who are at the bottom of the pile. The wait for one is 49 weeks.
The main problem with this is that your employer obviously has to be named. In my opinion this will most likely blacklist somebody from getting another worthwhile job in their chosen field

GSM you refer regularly to people who have worked hard in order to get what you've got. But, what about all those who work equally as hard but without the same rewards? If Labour were to increase the highest rate of tax it would not make a huge difference to the wealthiest in our society but would to those less well off.

There is always an element of luck/chance in our lives that affects our futures. I was lucky in that when I was thinking about what do with my working life I met the senior partner in a small West End practice who offered to take me on as an articled clerk, which I accepted. I have worked for very small firms and one of the Top 3 plus one medium sized practice.

In the very large firms there was a policy of up or out. I was lucky because I did not work in the practising office but a department that dealt with the firm's own taxation which was extremely complicated. I was unlucky in that it was decided to move this particular department out of London to an area where 8 months before we had been under bidders for a "do-uppable". We then decided to buy a house in Suffolk and about 2 weeks after we moved the departmental move had been announced. Ironically within our small group we often talked about our department moving of London but of course senior partners do not tell their staff what they are thinking of.

I think that there is an element of luck in most tings that we do.

I don’t trust any government not to raise taxes that will hit the lowest paid worst together with those slightly better off who can’t afford to pay an accountant to get them the best deal, whatever the excuse the government use for doing it.

Germanshepherdsmum

I do.

So I guess you were happy to pay for your children to be privately educated, to pay to go privately rather than NHS, and so on?

I do.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thanks twinnytwin. I also don’t trust Labour not to raise higher taxes on the backs of those of us who have worked hard for what we’ve got.

You see tax as a burden then?

I have just picked up something that Maizie said on the previous page
If we have supposedly full employment (bearing in mind that the govt. criteria for being 'in employment' is working 2 hours per fortnight) why are so many people in work struggling with low pay and part time hours? Scarcity of workers should lead to higher wages being offered to secure them and fewer people in low paid work...

The problem is that the people struggling with low pay and part time jobs do not have the skills to fill the jobs where there are scarcities.

In my area, two local food businesses have closed down because of a scarcity of trained bakers and butchers. In one case the wages that trained bakers could command, together with rocketing energy prices closed a flourishing business down. If the owner paid what had become the going wage he was going to have to put prices up so much, he would lose most of his busines. So after 30 years , he closed down.

We have an exceptionally low unemployment rate in this area, and plenty of vacancies, but they are mainly high tech or social care.

Many of these employees don’t even speak English - especially the women. If they learned the language they could have both choices and a voice. But despite having lived here for many years they need an interpreter. I find that unacceptable.

The HMRC have a team of people whose job is to check on employers underpaying staff.

The problem is that most of the companies underpaying are in the dark economy, small fast food outlets and the like. In some cities clothing sweatshops operate under the radar in unsafe premises, underpaying staff and paying neither national Insurance, nor minimum wage.

Those in these kinds of jobs are those closest to the bottom of society. They generally lack the skills or knowledge to complain to anyone and are often so grateful to have a job, any job, that they will do nothing to risk losing it - and lose it they will if they complain because if HMTC come looking the company will close down and put everyone out of work.