Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

Maybe Callistemon21 some people just take longer to get there. Some people grow up a lot faster than others but eventually most people find some way through life.

I agree ronib

My motto is "Don't despair"!

Luckygirl3

If we are going to pay for school attendance then we need to get a grip on the education system and its current failings.

Nail on the head 👏👏

ronib

I don’t know why no one seems to understand that with time, the disaffected 16 year old can morph into the connected focussed 20 plus year old. Not everyone stays stuck at stroppy teenager mould.

I don't know why it is difficult to understand that we are not talking about all teenagers - just the ones GSM is saying are making the wrong choices.

Doodledog Sometimes it’s good to make the wrong choices - it’s a process towards finding a direction which eventually makes sense!

Doodledog

*A financial reward for good attendance - if paid to the parents do you envisage some parents visiting violence upon the child if it has been playing truant?*

Heavens, no! That is not my thinking at all. When I taught at the college a payment was made to parents (I think it was £30 a week back in the 80s, so not a token payment) in lieu of CB when their child was over 18 and in further education. Otherwise CB stopped when they left school. In order to qualify for the following term's payments they had to have more than X% (80?) attendance or it stopped. In many cases this was vital to the family budget - in others it was pocket money for the student - but either way it concentrated the mind.

I dare say some parents might use physical punishment, but that is just as likely in high income as low income families, I think. It was more about a sense of immediate responsibility, and an incentive to turn up - both for the education itself, and as an excuse to peers who might be less than encouraging.

Not all poor families live on the proceeds of crime, and by no means all crime is committed by those on low incomes . Im most cases the students I taught had failed O levels at school and were resitting in the hope of getting apprenticeships or of joining the armed forces. The girls wanted to apply for basic levels of the Civil Service (clerical assistant grade) or do office junior roles rather than work in factories. They did have aspirations, but often needed to be focussed, and to have an 'excuse' to attend. They were 16 years old - not adults, even though they saw themselves as such.

The college fostered a very different culture from most schools. It wouldn't happen now, but students were allowed to smoke, there was no separate staff canteen, so they had coffee breaks and lunch with us, and everyone was on first name terms. That sort of thing goes a long way, too. I'm not saying that smoking should be reinstated, but treating them as adults helped, as the norm for many was to leave school as soon as possible and have babies. A generation before they would have been working and contributing to the family income, so would have had adult status. They would have really resented the petty rules of many schools. That

They were working class kids from decent families whose jobs had gone because of the wholesale destruction of heavy industry. An odd one used drugs, but it was nothing like on the scale suffered by that area now, several generations of despondency and government neglect later.

Deprivation causes what you see as 'choices', people don't choose deprivation.

Brilliant!

I'm quite impressed Doodledog - not everyone wants academia, so many do so well without. Well done explaining.

ronib

Doodledog Sometimes it’s good to make the wrong choices - it’s a process towards finding a direction which eventually makes sense!

Oh, that's definitely true, but it's a lot easier to bounce back when you have the support of a family that's not struggling too.

And if you haven’t become dependent on drugs and/or acquired a criminal record. Sadly so many kids are acquiring a record early in their lives and that makes finding a job very difficult until the conviction is ‘spent’. I admire James Timpson who recruits people from prisons for his shoe repair/key cutting etc shops and turns their lives around. More like him would be a good start.

Do under 18s keep criminal records through adulthood? I thought that unless they were really serious they didn't stay on their records?

If that's not the case, I think that should be looked at too, if we are looking at ways to make people engage more with society. If you are already disadvantaged, with low or no qualifications, no real idea of what jobs (never mind careers) are available, insecure housing etc, having a criminal record is likely to make you feel even more keenly that there is no point in trying.

I don't mean that offences such as murder should be removed from records, but things like petty theft, underage drunkenness or vandalism shouldn't ruin lives.

(and before anyone points it out, I do know that they are not victimless crimes - I'm not saying that they should be ignored, just that they shouldn't dog people's footsteps if they happened when someone was under 18)

And Braverman wants to prevent homeless people using tents, saying it's a lifestyle choice. Utterly disgusting and obviously throwing 'red meat' to Tory backwoods.

Lifestyle choice, indeed. She really is shameless.

What I don't understand is, if there was the money to get people off the streets during covid, why is so much more visible now again? I went into town last weekend and the visible homelessness was saddening and yet during/after covid the town had single figures for rough sleeping

Perhaps immigrants are now placed in the hotels which the government paid to take in the homeless?

I doubt it, GSM. During Covid people weren't using hotels as guests, but they will be now, so the beds won't be available.

Well, the government has certainly flooded a good many hotels with immigrants - I’m sure plenty of hotels would be pleased to have 100% occupancy year-round courtesy of the government.

One of the most influential books I read when I was young was Orwell’s ‘A Clergyman’s Daughter’ which showed how difficult it is to get out of a downward spiral if something goes wrong in your life through no fault of your own. It’s as true/relevant now as it was when it was written. Mind you, on the subject of downward spirals, I thought Ms Braverman couldn’t possibly sink a lower in my estimation but she’s proved me wrong

ronib

Don’t understand why investment bankers are being scapegoated for society’s failures. Investors fund life saving cancer research and treatments. What life saving research is involved in kicking a ball into a goal? What hypocrisy - football is a very overrated and hugely overpaid sport which keeps the masses happy and in their place.

If they didn't make so much money for their banks, more would be available for the charities perhaps.

I remember many years ago doing a schedule of investments for a client. His holding were managed by a broker and I don't think he had much input himself. Like so many smallish investors her relied upon the experts. I realised that there was little dividend income from his holdings and the reason for that. The brokers were trading too frequently and of course getting their commission for each trade. Each year the monies invested was reduced, not because he was taking funds out but because of the number of trades.

Dinahmo don’t scientific startups arrange funding through investment companies/banks? Or do the banks only join in when the project is completely viable and profitable? Not thinking of charitable funding but rather start up finance.

It would depend upon the start up. Most SMEs , if they required funding would use their retail bank. In order to do that many of them will be required to give personal guarantees.

I was responding to this comment " Investors fund life saving cancer research and treatments. " I would have thought that investors are buying shares in big pharma because the profits are enormous.

Finally, we can have little idea of what footballers do with their earnings. Some of them will be paying tax at the highest rates.

I have only recently become aware of funding for startups and retail banks are not involved in initial funding.
I don’t think humanity is greatly aided by the ability to kick a ball about and the financial rewards have always seemed out of all proportion to societal gain. Prejudiced I know….. I just pity the very hardworking researchers.

It seems to be mainly govt grants and loans - through a number of different agencies.

Seed funding Dinahmo?

Usually own funds, friends and family, cashing in pension funds, crowd funding, venture capitalists, angels (not so many)

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps immigrants are now placed in the hotels which the government paid to take in the homeless?

the homeless were housed in adapted office buildings here, not hotels

Some were very definitely in hotels and by and large it seemed to work pretty well for all concerned. I remember reading an article about it in the Sunday Times some time ago.