Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

paddyann54 Hamas have and are hiding their weapons in and around schools, hospitals and refugee camps its their modus operandi.

Your anger should be directed towards Hamas, they are preventing civilians getting to safety in Khan Younis, they are holding hostages, the youngest is 9months, the eldest is 87…

Ghazi Hamad the Hamas spokesperson has reiterated that

We will repeat 7th October attack time and again until Israel is annihilated

Doesn’t sound as if they are interested in a ceasefire or negotiations.

The leader of Hezbollah is also stepping up the war rhetoric against Israel in his first speech since 7/10.

What is happening to civilians on both sides is truly dreadful, but it takes both sides to broker a lasting peace, and that, from what we can understand from Hamas is simply not going to happen. Hamas have plenty of fuel, else how would you launch those rockets, also water food and medicine for its fighters. Sadly for civilians there is none. Whatever sort of government except N.Korea and maybe Russia would treat its own people so appallingly?

growstuff

Oreo

Funny that in all the tv footage there are wall to wall men.
In any case, hamas are no doubt lying through their teeth about everything.

Oh really?

About half of the people in Gaza are under 18. Of the remaining 50%, about half are women. That means that approximately 75% of the population is either a child or a woman, so it's hardly surprising that the majority of those killed is either a woman or a child.

Which Hamas knows full well.

merlotgran

^Careless talk costs lives^

Even worse when it’s in shouty capitals!

I would think the Mossad are quite capable of handling any covert activity, their reputation precedes them.

However if the conflict spreads a rapid response may be needed to help UK nationals in the region so I would expect a group to be on standby, the US would also be similar

Hamas couldn’t give a toss about the women and children in Gaza, they’re not the fighters they need. The children are only useful in so far as they can be indoctrinated into the Hamas way of thinking to provide future fighters, until they have, as stated in their aims, annihilated Israel.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202311/medium-733386-img-2110.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202311/medium-423918-img-2109.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202311/medium-471950-img-2108.jpeg

This is what Hamas do with children.

Be ashamed...be very ashamed.Htred of Palestinians is just the same as hatred of Jews ,we all bleed

It’s about time you stopped coming on here dictating to other posters about how they should feel. Maybe you should be very ashamed of accusing posters that have a different opinion to you regarding Scottish independence of wearing butcher’s aprons!

If Hamas, Hezbollah et al aren’t killing Jews they’re killing westerners and other Muslims. They’re vile.

Having looked at a BBC site on numbers of women and children, yes, there are a lot but 65% and not 75%.Children are counted as 18 and under.A lot of the hamas terrorists who murdered families in Israel were 14 15 16 and 17 according to IDF. Really shocking, considering the barbaric acts carried out.
I wouldn’t believe any numbers put out by hamas or any other terrorist organisation.

The children in this picture from maddyone's post are Israeli and the picture was first shown in 2014.

Oreo

Having looked at a BBC site on numbers of women and children, yes, there are a lot but 65% and not 75%.Children are counted as 18 and under.A lot of the hamas terrorists who murdered families in Israel were 14 15 16 and 17 according to IDF. Really shocking, considering the barbaric acts carried out.
I wouldn’t believe any numbers put out by hamas or any other terrorist organisation.

I don't believe everything the IDF posts either.

Apologies if the picture was incorrect. The other two aren’t though are they?

maddyone

Apologies if the picture was incorrect. The other two aren’t though are they?

Google reverse search shows that the third one has been doing the rounds for at least 7 years and has been attributed to various terror organisations.

Sky News considers the Gaza Health Authorities figures are largely reliable, they have proved so in the past. There is film of the expanding graveyards and permission has been given for mass graves to be used for the victims news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-how-many-people-have-died-in-gaza-12998755

I found the pictures quickly, should have taken more care, if growstuff is correct. But I’ve seen many images of children in Palestine dressed up as fighters over the years, because the children are often politicised early. That’s why children were told to go to checkpoints and throw bricks at Israeli soldiers. And very young teenagers sent out with bombs to set off in cafes and buses. Hamas radicalise children, it’s been known for years.
Maybe Israelis do too, but I’ve never been aware of it. I’ve never before seen a picture of an Israeli child wearing a suicide vest, so on reflection, wonder about that picture.

Thanks for information growstuff, so we don’t know the origins of that particular picture. Fair enough.

The radicalisation of children and the use of child soldiers is often used by non state operatives. It's truly terrible to expose children to the violence of war, let alone expect them to be perpetrators. If Hamas used children in the attack (and anyone under the age of 18 is considered a child) then it is totally despicable. The child soldiers of Sierra Leone were given amphetamines and cocaine to enable them to commit atrocities and most never recovered from the experience.

It’s simply horrible isn’t it foxie?
Wherever it happens, the use of children in warfare is horrible.

maddyone

It’s simply horrible isn’t it foxie?
Wherever it happens, the use of children in warfare is horrible.

It's all vile. I am not a pacifist but I cannot see how bombing Gaza into the ground and killing children and women will take Israel nearer to peace. The citizens of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank have been totally let down by their own governments and by the rest of the world. They are all victims and they are all paying a high price for incompetence and neglect of duty. It's just beyond sad. They are people just like you and me with the same hopes and dreams of living in safety with a family around them.

Glorianny

Oreo

foxie48
I don’t intend to ferret about on threads just to show you a certain post, but I have def read the opinion that all the residents of Gaza need to feel differently about Jews is a good economy jobs and security.Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Taliban and others who hate Israel and Jews in many countries have no interest in those things and only want a Muslim Caliphate.
I have attacked the argument many times on here already btw.

The argument that all Muslims want a Caliphate is just as offensive as any statement that says all Jews are anything. It's pure religious discrimination.
I have stated constantly that there will always be individual extremists, but most people are not extremists. Terrorist organisations recruit from societies where there is poverty, discrimination and oppression. You cannot kill an idea. You can only try to ensure that people do not want to die for a cause. There will always be people who still wish to. But one thing is absolutely certain if you kill families then the survivors will be radicalised and will be recruited. With 9000 dead there will be people joining Hamas.

No one has suggested that ‘all Muslims want a caliphate. It’s also not certain that if you kill families, the survivors will be radicalised. That’s less like saying anyone who experienced an abusive childhood will become an advisor.
The Holocaust survivors I have known have been peacemakers, not interested in revenge.

This situation is desperate, distressing and overwhelming. We need peacemakers not people who excuse the inexcusable.

foxie48

maddyone

It’s simply horrible isn’t it foxie?
Wherever it happens, the use of children in warfare is horrible.

It's all vile. I am not a pacifist but I cannot see how bombing Gaza into the ground and killing children and women will take Israel nearer to peace. The citizens of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank have been totally let down by their own governments and by the rest of the world. They are all victims and they are all paying a high price for incompetence and neglect of duty. It's just beyond sad. They are people just like you and me with the same hopes and dreams of living in safety with a family around them.

I agred foxie48

Watching the news tonight, weeping and feeling helpless because the children on both sides of this conflict have lost their futures.
If they do survive, the trauma will always be with them.

paddyann54

Israel has been ignoring the UN for decades,why does anyone think they'll do what they're told now?
Maybe if they had been brought to book over the landgrabs,torture and appalling treatment of Palestinians decades ago this would have never happened.
We need to stop supplying arms.. .thats whats destroying lives ...the countries happy to sell ...or give armaments to hostile countries .
Too many people make shed loads of money from war ...stop it at its source

My sentiments exactly. What is happening now is genocide

I agree.

Sadly I don't believe the propaganda put out by either side. I would like to know how the IDF define a military target as it would seem that the whole of Gaza is one. I would also like to know what is the end point of this incursion and what will happen to the Gazans who are still alive, how they will be housed, fed and have access to at least basic services? How will they be governed? It's easy for Israel to flex it's military muscle but surely we also need to see that it has a heart as well and wants to live peacefully with it's neighbours