Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

bmacca

There is no denying that the Hamas attack was abhorrent.

But you do know what bombs do to the human body? They rip people to pieces. They squash them beneath falling buildings. They burn their flesh. They rip their guts out. They blow off body parts. They decapitate. This is what Israeli “blasts” and “explosions “ are doing. To thousands of children

So Hamas should be allowed to drive the Jews out of Israel because that is their stated intention.

Glorianny

Katie59

“It shocks me that some people think that making people into refugees and forcing them to leave their homes is acceptable. In any case the road south is now impassable”

They were told over 2 weeks ago to leave but Hamas wouldn’t let them, hoping that International pressure would make Israel give up - until the next time.

Please explain to me exactly how Hamas stopped them?
If you read the statements from people actually living there, they tried to leave, but the road was impassable because of craters, debris and bodies left after the bombing. Vehicles couldn't use it.
So even trying to justify what is really ethnic cleansing isn't actually possible. Nothing to do with Hamas (I thought they were all in the tunnels anyway)
Honestly the sheer illogicality of some of the beliefs on here astounds me quite as much as the inhumanity.

There were several reports of Hamas using its own snipers to shoot Palestinians trying to leave the North, there are also reports of Hamas blockading the roads.

In fact there is a distressing recorded phone call from a civilian in Gaza trying to leave the city confirming the above, released by the IDF.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

Katie59

“It shocks me that some people think that making people into refugees and forcing them to leave their homes is acceptable. In any case the road south is now impassable”

They were told over 2 weeks ago to leave but Hamas wouldn’t let them, hoping that International pressure would make Israel give up - until the next time.

Please explain to me exactly how Hamas stopped them?
If you read the statements from people actually living there, they tried to leave, but the road was impassable because of craters, debris and bodies left after the bombing. Vehicles couldn't use it.
So even trying to justify what is really ethnic cleansing isn't actually possible. Nothing to do with Hamas (I thought they were all in the tunnels anyway)
Honestly the sheer illogicality of some of the beliefs on here astounds me quite as much as the inhumanity.

There were several reports of Hamas using its own snipers to shoot Palestinians trying to leave the North, there are also reports of Hamas blockading the roads.

In fact there is a distressing recorded phone call from a civilian in Gaza trying to leave the city confirming the above, released by the IDF.

Could you post some real evidence of this please.
I posted NPR reporting from Gaza residents who said the road was impassable. Here it is again www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645183/israeli-military-announces-brief-window-people-in-northern-gaza-to-flee-south

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

Katie59

“It shocks me that some people think that making people into refugees and forcing them to leave their homes is acceptable. In any case the road south is now impassable”

They were told over 2 weeks ago to leave but Hamas wouldn’t let them, hoping that International pressure would make Israel give up - until the next time.

Please explain to me exactly how Hamas stopped them?
If you read the statements from people actually living there, they tried to leave, but the road was impassable because of craters, debris and bodies left after the bombing. Vehicles couldn't use it.
So even trying to justify what is really ethnic cleansing isn't actually possible. Nothing to do with Hamas (I thought they were all in the tunnels anyway)
Honestly the sheer illogicality of some of the beliefs on here astounds me quite as much as the inhumanity.

There were several reports of Hamas using its own snipers to shoot Palestinians trying to leave the North, there are also reports of Hamas blockading the roads.

In fact there is a distressing recorded phone call from a civilian in Gaza trying to leave the city confirming the above, released by the IDF.

Could you post some real evidence of this please.
I posted NPR reporting from Gaza residents who said the road was impassable. Here it is again www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645183/israeli-military-announces-brief-window-people-in-northern-gaza-to-flee-south

Friday 2/11/23 at 14.16.25

I posted the phone call.

GrannyGravy13

There are unconfirmed reports that Hamas as well as blocking the roads south to Khan Younis have had snipers open fire in women and children attempting to leave Gaza City…

If this was it, there is no source, no unbiased report and no recording on the link. Why on earth would a Palestinian call the IDF?

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

There are unconfirmed reports that Hamas as well as blocking the roads south to Khan Younis have had snipers open fire in women and children attempting to leave Gaza City…

If this was it, there is no source, no unbiased report and no recording on the link. Why on earth would a Palestinian call the IDF?

If you go to the IDF X account the entire phone call is there for you to listen to.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

There are unconfirmed reports that Hamas as well as blocking the roads south to Khan Younis have had snipers open fire in women and children attempting to leave Gaza City…

If this was it, there is no source, no unbiased report and no recording on the link. Why on earth would a Palestinian call the IDF?

If you go to the IDF X account the entire phone call is there for you to listen to.

Not on X and really don't believe the IDF who have a vested interest.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

There are unconfirmed reports that Hamas as well as blocking the roads south to Khan Younis have had snipers open fire in women and children attempting to leave Gaza City…

If this was it, there is no source, no unbiased report and no recording on the link. Why on earth would a Palestinian call the IDF?

If you go to the IDF X account the entire phone call is there for you to listen to.

Not on X and really don't believe the IDF who have a vested interest.

Entirely up to you who you believe.

Gloriana

So you believe everything Hamas says and obviously believe their aims that the Jews should be driven out of Israel

Katie59

Gloriana

So you believe everything Hamas says and obviously believe their aims that the Jews should be driven out of Israel

Sorry where have I said this?
Usually I look for reports by unbiased media sources.
Incidentally thanks for the royal title but I'm not Elizabeth 1

Glorianny

Katie59

Gloriana

So you believe everything Hamas says and obviously believe their aims that the Jews should be driven out of Israel

Sorry where have I said this?
Usually I look for reports by unbiased media sources.
Incidentally thanks for the royal title but I'm not Elizabeth 1

There will be no peace while Hamas remain in Gaza and attacking Israel whenever it wants to. The only solution is to disarm Hamas AND reform Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

Glorianny
Usually I look for reports by unbiased media sources.

Like the Islamic ones you normally use? Hardly unbiased.

Katie59

Glorianny

Katie59

Gloriana

So you believe everything Hamas says and obviously believe their aims that the Jews should be driven out of Israel

Sorry where have I said this?
Usually I look for reports by unbiased media sources.
Incidentally thanks for the royal title but I'm not Elizabeth 1

There will be no peace while Hamas remain in Gaza and attacking Israel whenever it wants to. The only solution is to disarm Hamas AND reform Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

Yes!

Hamas is not only using civilians in the battle area as human shields, they are in effect using using the whole of Gaza residents as a shield to attack Israel behind.

Glorianny

maddyone

It (Israel) seems to be untouchable for many reasons……

I can’t believe that this has been written. The Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years!

Untouchable? Really?
They have suffered more than any other group and continue to do so.

People should stop confusing the actions of Israel with the views of Jewish people. They are not the same. Many Jews are protesting about what is happening.

They should perhaps also look at the history of the creation of the state of Israel. Many of its original settlers wanted a socialist state, which is why the kibbutz were set up. They were run on non-religious socialist ideas. Given the present government of Israel the conflict between the two ideas might be meaningful. Be'eri was one of the few kibbutz still run on cooperative lines, most have been privatised.

Does it ever occur to you that the history of Jewish people, including Isreal, is well known to most of us, as demonstrated here.
Posts that are Patronising, polarised, totally one sided and skating close to anti semitism help no one. They certainly will not help any move to diplomatic solutions which are so desperately needed
Have you visited Israel or Palestine, I have

This Israeli Was IMPRISONED at 19 For Opposing The Occupation. Please Listen To Her

This young Israeli woman explains why she did not want to be a part of the IDF in their occupation of Palestine

She does most of the talking Owen Jones interviews her.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZse8sPOn8

There has got to be a better way than war war war. Stop western governments like UK and USA arming Israel There has to be a diplomatic solution.

Iam64

Glorianny

maddyone

It (Israel) seems to be untouchable for many reasons……

I can’t believe that this has been written. The Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years!

Untouchable? Really?
They have suffered more than any other group and continue to do so.

People should stop confusing the actions of Israel with the views of Jewish people. They are not the same. Many Jews are protesting about what is happening.

They should perhaps also look at the history of the creation of the state of Israel. Many of its original settlers wanted a socialist state, which is why the kibbutz were set up. They were run on non-religious socialist ideas. Given the present government of Israel the conflict between the two ideas might be meaningful. Be'eri was one of the few kibbutz still run on cooperative lines, most have been privatised.

Does it ever occur to you that the history of Jewish people, including Isreal, is well known to most of us, as demonstrated here.
Posts that are Patronising, polarised, totally one sided and skating close to anti semitism help no one. They certainly will not help any move to diplomatic solutions which are so desperately needed
Have you visited Israel or Palestine, I have

Please explain to me how I am "skating close to anti-semitism".
The concept that visiting a country gives you more knowledge is a flawed one. I doubt if visiting gave you the concept of either a Jew whose family survived the Holocaust or a Palestinian whose family were exiled in the Nakba.
Of course a diplomatic solution is needed. Has anyone said it isn't?
.

You doubt on gloryanny, you know nothing about my friendships with Jewish and Palestinian people. There’s no point attempting to expand your understanding of anti semitism.

I really don’t see any hope of long term peace unless Hamas or any other group remains as an armed force capable of attacking Israel from Gaza.
The future for civilians in Gaza is peace not as a shield from which a terrorist groups can hide and launch rockets into Israel. In my eyes the future is for Gaza to demilitarize and Israel to recognize Palestinians as full citizens, that should be guaranteed by the international community, particularly the US. Only the US can force Israel to accept this concession.
For Israel to loose this conflict will embolden Hamas who will make bigger more destructive weapons and in 2 yrs there will be an even worse conflict.

The continued bombing of Gaza can only lead to more resistance to Israel in whatever form it's called. Those traumatised children will grow up into adults who hate Israel. Resentment can't be bombed out of existence - it can only grow. Astounding that Netanyahu can't understand that.

Grany

This Israeli Was IMPRISONED at 19 For Opposing The Occupation. Please Listen To Her

This young Israeli woman explains why she did not want to be a part of the IDF in their occupation of Palestine

She does most of the talking Owen Jones interviews her.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZse8sPOn8

There has got to be a better way than war war war. Stop western governments like UK and USA arming Israel There has to be a diplomatic solution.

This woman is an Israeli she against the military occupation of the Palestinian people They have no one in authority they can speak to they have no rights. The IDF treat Palistinians badly but not her an Israeli Revenge attacks collective punishment war crimes is not the answer. UK and USA must Stop the political and military support that encourages Isreal in their war crimes. She is calling on everyone to support a ceasefire that is the only way. Working together to find a solution

Katie59

I really don’t see any hope of long term peace unless Hamas or any other group remains as an armed force capable of attacking Israel from Gaza.
The future for civilians in Gaza is peace not as a shield from which a terrorist groups can hide and launch rockets into Israel. In my eyes the future is for Gaza to demilitarize and Israel to recognize Palestinians as full citizens, that should be guaranteed by the international community, particularly the US. Only the US can force Israel to accept this concession.
For Israel to loose this conflict will embolden Hamas who will make bigger more destructive weapons and in 2 yrs there will be an even worse conflict.

But even if it kills every Hamas member in Gaza and destroys all their weapons Hamas will still exist in other places. They will reassemble elsewhere and rearm.

The death toll has passed 10,000

Netanyahu has made his plans known, Israel will control Gaza. Having forced most Palestinians into the South, I don't think they will be allowed back into the North to rebuild their lives. tbh I think the long term plan is to drive them out of Gaza by making their lives even more desperate than it has been already. Not a recipe for long term peace!

Grany

This Israeli Was IMPRISONED at 19 For Opposing The Occupation. Please Listen To Her

This young Israeli woman explains why she did not want to be a part of the IDF in their occupation of Palestine

She does most of the talking Owen Jones interviews her.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZse8sPOn8

There has got to be a better way than war war war. Stop western governments like UK and USA arming Israel There has to be a diplomatic solution.

What about Iran, Russia, North Korea stopped supplying Hamas and Hezbollah.
What about Qatar stop funding them.
What about Lebanon stopped allowing the above to build arms factories in Lebanon.
What about South American countries stop dealing drugs with them. From which they earn billions.

What really happened on 7th October?
Evidence is now emerging that up to half the Israelis killed were combatants; that Israeli forces were responsible for some of their own civilian deaths; and that Tel Aviv disseminated false ‘Hamas atrocities’ stories to justify its devastating air assault on Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

new.thecradle.co/articles/what-really-happened-on-7th-october

700 Palestinian children are locked up every year in military prison.