Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

Oreo

Are you and your family really Jewish Paddyann54 cos I have to say from all your comments you sure don’t sound to be.
BN isn’t popular as a leader and will be voted out you can bet when peace is eventually achieved, but what he has done or not done doesn’t matter a jot now as the Israeli government won’t be deterred from ridding Gaza of as much of hamas as they possibly can, and all that goes along with that aim.

What an apalling thing to say. My Jewish friends from Israel think just the same, and so does the majortity of Jews in Israel who are terrified of Netanyahu and who he stands for- and making all Jews in Israel and around the world at huge risk.

They are the ones who shared the link about the Ben Gurion dam project- which would go right through Gaza, and take control of commerce and petrol movements away from Egypt and the 'Arabs'.

Ilovecheese

I hope there is not going to be another pile on against Paddyann. The last one was most unedifiing. Catholics are allowed to marry non Catholics these days you know.

And many of us have very mixed families, in so many ways, including religious. Many Jews are not religious at all btw.

I didn’t know about the dam fleur, just another land grab.

Another example is Silwan, a Palestinian village where 150 families have been turned out of their homes and land for it to be turned into an Israeli theme park.
To be powerless in such situations leads to understandable anger and frustration.

WHO says 160 children are being killed every day. Gaza is a children's graveyard.

The link is to the NYT

Fleurpepper you seem to have friends in just about every country in the world.
What twaddle to say that the majority of Jews in Israel think the same as your friends, you, and paddyanne.
I bet the majority may dislike BN but are horrified and disgusted at what hamas did and fear more pogroms from Gaza if hamas isn’t defeated.

Well said Oreo.
Today is the anniversary of Kristallnacht. I have friends who are survivors of that. Their families managed to get the resources together to get them out. Family members who stayed behind all perished in the concentration camps.
They share the concern about the current Israeli government but fear their safety.
Ancestor syndrome is with them and with the Palestinians

We need skilled politicians and diplomats to work for peace.

It is absurd that the only thing deemed unsuitable for Armistice Day is a march for an armistice.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/08/protesting-armistice-day-peace-war

“Rather than an insult to the dead, there is no more fitting legacy to remember the horrors of war by seeking to end them. As Harry Patch, the last surviving Tommy, put it: “War is organised murder and nothing else.” Who could look at the mass graves of Gaza and conclude otherwise?”

Oreo

Fleurpepper you seem to have friends in just about every country in the world.
What twaddle to say that the majority of Jews in Israel think the same as your friends, you, and paddyanne.
I bet the majority may dislike BN but are horrified and disgusted at what hamas did and fear more pogroms from Gaza if hamas isn’t defeated.

Yes, can't help this. We have family all over the world, so many countries, etnicity, culture and religion. That is just the way it is.

And yes, no twaddle- huge numbers of Jews in Israel and around the world are terrified of Netanyahu's illegal expansion and war, and are very aware that it puts them all, them and their children and grandchildren, at huge risk again. And of course they are horrified and disgusted at what Hamas did- but truly do NOT believe that the massively cruel bombing and destruction of innocent Palestinians, who have been illegally dispossessed of their land, their culture, their homes and dignitity, in apartheid Gaza and West Bank- is the way forwards.

They also are traing to work out how, despite repeated strong warnings from all their intelligence and security services- Hamas was able to enter Israel with massive bulldozers and then travel a long distance to inflict those awful atrocities and take hostages- without the Security services being aware and without bombing them accurately as they travelled inland. The most sophisticated security services, armed with the most precise and effective weapons. HOW could this be MISSED- AND MAKE IT POSSIBLE???

According to a poll by the Israeli Democracy Institute released last week, trust in the government collapsed to a 20-year low with 20 percent of Israelis saying they trusted Netanyahu’s cabinet – eight percentage points lower compared with June.

Do they do similar surveys in Palestine?

There was an interesting program on last night called Jews Don’t Count presented by David Baddiel.
We all think we know how much antisemitism there is around the world but this program shows just how deep it goes.

I know. I still don't understand why Jews are so unpopular around the world. They are a tiny minority but with disproportionate power it seems to me.

They are unpopular with bigots if that's what you mean.

Grace Blakeley
@graceblakeley

This is what leadership looks like!

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@mabonapgwynfor

14h
The Welsh Parliament has tonight backed @Plaid_Cymru’s Motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in #Gaza and #Israel. Our Senedd has taken a stand in the cause of humanity.

#ceasefirenow

Oh that will completely shift the narrative. The self indulgence is breathtaking.

Galaxy that's not what I mean. Why has there been pogrom after pogrom in various places throughout the world to say nothing about the holocaust. I've never understood what it is about them that leads to such negative reactions.

I think it's just a different form of bigotry/hatred, antisemitism is quite embedded in certain sections of society and people do close their eyes to it. I find it quite difficult to explain, I think some people have a picture in their head of the 'ideal' victim that they can go into bat for so to speak and Jewish people dont meet their criteria. Sorry I havent explained that well.

Galaxy

Oh that will completely shift the narrative. The self indulgence is breathtaking.

Who is Grace Blakeney - is she just another person with an opinion?
I'm sure all the protagonists will take note 🤔

What are your own thoughts on this, Grany?

I have very little sympathy for Israel because the resettlement has been ridiculous, around 600,000 have stolen land from the Palestinians.

This resettlement has got to be reversed and at the same time Gaza has got to be demilitarized, unless that happens there is no hope for peace.

Grace Blakeney is a left wing commentator

tickingbird

Grace Blakeney is a left wing commentator

Well that would explain that then wouldn’t it!
I don’t know why anyone takes any notice of these self important commentators.

Apart from good, old fashioned bigotry and prejudice, one of the main reasons Jews are hated is because, for such a small minority and the many terrible injustices suffered by them, they are, in the main, successful.

There are Jews in the media, commerce, entertainment, sciences, literature etc and they shine. They have oft been called ‘The Chosen Ones.

Now I don’t subscribe to that belief but there is a collective consciousness among Jews to rise above if you like. When there is a shared ancestry of persecution going down the centuries maybe a genetic link impels such a drive. It’s not about greed, it’s survival.

maddyone
Well that would explain that then wouldn’t it!
I don’t know why anyone takes any notice of these self important commentators.

I don’t Maddy but others seem to hang onto their every word. She’s very young and doesn’t look long out of university so why are her opinions worth anymore than anyone else’s?

silverlining48

I didn’t know about the dam fleur, just another land grab.

Another example is Silwan, a Palestinian village where 150 families have been turned out of their homes and land for it to be turned into an Israeli theme park.
To be powerless in such situations leads to understandable anger and frustration.

So sorry, the Ben Gurion project is NOT A DAM, but an alternative to the Suez CANAL. Wider, deeper and run by Western powers, NOT the Egyptians (aka 'the Arabs' as seen by Netanyahu and Western Powers).