Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

Fleurpepper

President Macron has made a clear request for a cease-fire, saying he hopes others will join him, including the UK and the USA.

And made very clear that the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is ILLEGAL.

It doesn’t matter what Macron has requested because the Israelis will do what they’ve set out to do.

Incidentally it’s not indiscriminate bombing. The bombing is targeted and the Israelis give warnings, unlike Hamas who raided at dawn, while people were still in their beds.

His so called “dilemma” does not appear to affecting the polls, which according to LBC are showing that Starmer will win even more seats than Blair’s massive landslide.

I hope that’s right Whitewave. Whether we agree with him on Israel or not, he’s set out his belief and stayed with it. I’ve just heard a bit of Wes Streeting on radio 4, it may be the Labour policy is shifting

I don’t think KS’ stance will make the slightest difference in the polls. Labour will win next time even if KS said nothing. Calling for, or not calling for a ceasefire is a waste of time unless you have the power to make it happen.
Unless both sides involved can find a way to live peacefully together, this war is going to go on.
The attack of a terrorist organisation such as Hamas (don’t forget where they have built their tunnels) just makes things worse and more difficult to resolve.

I think you’re right Mollygo.
Keir Starmer could not say another word until after the next election and he would still be our next PM.
I admire his stance on Israel. I hope the far left don’t manage to influence him, but I don’t think they will.

maddyone

Fleurpepper

President Macron has made a clear request for a cease-fire, saying he hopes others will join him, including the UK and the USA.

And made very clear that the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is ILLEGAL.

It doesn’t matter what Macron has requested because the Israelis will do what they’ve set out to do.

Incidentally it’s not indiscriminate bombing. The bombing is targeted and the Israelis give warnings, unlike Hamas who raided at dawn, while people were still in their beds.

Amnesty are investigating and have found evidence of illegal and indiscriminate bombing
Amnesty International is continuing to investigate dozens of attacks in Gaza. This output focuses on five unlawful attacks which struck residential buildings, a refugee camp, a family home and a public market. The Israeli army claims it only attacks military targets, but in a number of cases Amnesty International found no evidence of the presence of fighters or other military objectives in the vicinity at the time of the attacks. Amnesty International also found that the Israeli military failed to take all feasible precautions ahead of attacks including by not giving Palestinian civilians effective prior warnings – in some cases they did not warn civilians at all and in others they issued inadequate warnings.

“Our research points to damning evidence of war crimes in Israel’s bombing campaign that must be urgently investigated. Decades of impunity and injustice and the unprecedented level of death and destruction of the current offensive will only result in further violence and instability in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories,” said Agnès Callamard

Glorianny,
I’ve been searching for Amnesty International’s investigations/reports into the actions of Hamas, including their tunnels purposely built under civilian sites which allow them to pursue their actions and willingly risk the lives of civilians if efforts are made to destroy the tunnels and rein in their murderous purposes.
I haven’t found anything so far, but maybe with your expertise on AA, you could provide that?

Mollygo

Glorianny,
I’ve been searching for Amnesty International’s investigations/reports into the actions of Hamas, including their tunnels purposely built under civilian sites which allow them to pursue their actions and willingly risk the lives of civilians if efforts are made to destroy the tunnels and rein in their murderous purposes.
I haven’t found anything so far, but maybe with your expertise on AA, you could provide that?

I'm sorry I don't think Hamas are inviting people to access any tunnels at the moment.
Amnesty has investigated 5 sites where they found no evidence of any military installations. They were civilian properties. They were bombed with no warning given to civilians

Of course Hamas are not inviting or allowing anyone to view tunnels they use for movement of fighters/ transporting/storing of weapons.
That would be silly.
Since all civilians have been advised to move, I’m not sure about the No warning you claim, unless it’s the same sort of no warning that Hamas used when they murdered or kidnapped all those people on October 7.
That was a real no warning, and I’m sure even you didn’t support that attack.

Starmer now has dissent in the ranks, as well as the resignations, Labour Party members voted in two motions, 56 of them defying the party whip in the SNP amendment calling for a ceasefire.
news.sky.com/story/politics-news-live-david-cameron-attending-new-look-cabinet-as-suella-braverman-ally-submits-letter-of-no-confidence-in-rishi-sunak-12593360

To be fair I think it could have been worse.

I could cry for Jess. In fact I am going to cry for Jess. How awful for her to have to do this. I hope the war doesn’t ultimately have a devastating effect on this country, too.

Jess Philips chose to resign, don’t waste your pity crying for her.
Same with the rest of the Labour SC.
They can be replaced.

Mollygo

*Of course Hamas are not inviting or allowing anyone to view tunnels they use for movement of fighters/ transporting/storing of weapons.*
That would be silly.
Since all civilians have been advised to move, I’m not sure about the No warning you claim, unless it’s the same sort of no warning that Hamas used when they murdered or kidnapped all those people on October 7.
That was a real no warning, and I’m sure even you didn’t support that attack.

Amnesty said about ten years ago that hamas was using wards in the hospitals to torture and kill opponents.

AI isn’t able to verify anything much at the moment going on in Gaza.

I think she’s one of the most honest, decent politicians I’ve ever come across and yes, I will cry for her because she’ll be so upset at this moment in time. I really wanted her in government. Let’s hope that, by next year she will be in Starmers cabinet. If not it will be this countries loss. She’s worth a hundred of the people in the current government.

Mollygo

I don’t think KS’ stance will make the slightest difference in the polls. Labour will win next time even if KS said nothing. Calling for, or not calling for a ceasefire is a waste of time unless you have the power to make it happen.
Unless both sides involved can find a way to live peacefully together, this war is going to go on.
The attack of a terrorist organisation such as Hamas (don’t forget where they have built their tunnels) just makes things worse and more difficult to resolve.

This.

MayBee70

I think she’s one of the most honest, decent politicians I’ve ever come across and yes, I will cry for her because she’ll be so upset at this moment in time. I really wanted her in government. Let’s hope that, by next year she will be in Starmers cabinet. If not it will be this countries loss. She’s worth a hundred of the people in the current government.

Are you able to cry readily at something like this? Just curious.
I couldn’t force out tears for any politician who chooses to resign of her/his own free will.
I could say she is standing by her own principles and be sorry she’s going, but that’s all.

I could cry with relief that we have Starmer as leader at this time.

Oreo

MayBee70

I think she’s one of the most honest, decent politicians I’ve ever come across and yes, I will cry for her because she’ll be so upset at this moment in time. I really wanted her in government. Let’s hope that, by next year she will be in Starmers cabinet. If not it will be this countries loss. She’s worth a hundred of the people in the current government.

Are you able to cry readily at something like this? Just curious.
I couldn’t force out tears for any politician who chooses to resign of her/his own free will.
I could say she is standing by her own principles and be sorry she’s going, but that’s all.

Have you listened to her speeches in parliament about the things that really matter to her, most notably the protection of vulnerable women?

Galaxy

I could cry with relief that we have Starmer as leader at this time.

👍🏻

Maybee70 I’ve listened to some of her speeches yes, but as I work don’t have much time.I’m not getting at you btw or her come to that, but read so many times on forums that people say they have cried or will cry or are crying at anything to do with British politics always makes me curious, will they really or is it just a figure of speech?

I don’t cry much these days. Think it’s a post menopause lack of hormones thing. But yes, my eye’s welled up when I heard of her resignation because she’s in a job that means so much to her. When I do get teary eyed about anything these days it tends to take me by surprise as it’s totally involuntary.

Does anyone think Hamas or Israel are looking at the outcome of a vote in the UK House of Commons? Seriously? No! It makes no difference what we vote for - ceasefire, pause, whatever!