Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

I must be very left-wing because I do believe in a free school lunch for all children in State education, not means-tested.

Not very logical Callistemon. Do you really believe that we all only agree with one area of politics? That someone who is a Centrist or Conservative may never approve of a left-wing policy or vice versa?

I would think many who do not generally follow the statist politics of Labour would, for example, be in favour of the NHS. Equally, those who don't believe in hyper-limited state powers may still agree with some parts of democratic conservatism.

No, I was just making a tongue-in-cheek reply to Grany's post, not that I expect you to understand that type of expression as you seem to prefer blunt statements.

Callistemon21

No, I was just making a tongue-in-cheek reply to Grany's post, not that I expect you to understand that type of expression as you seem to prefer blunt statements.

Callistemon you attack me for replying to an undirected post. This was a post which gave every appearance of being a reply to mine. It immediately followed mine which mentioned the words "most left-wing" to which youappeared to refer with your "very left-wing". Could tell me how, when you and I were the only people using left-wing in those few posts, I was supposed guess it was directed at Grany.

So we can all make sense of this, perhaps you could enlighten us by making it clear which post it was a reply to.

To whom it may concern (no names) Please stop arguing about who said what to whom. I start to read a post which turns out to be a criticism of a perceived attack. So I've just wasted a minute or two. Multiply that by the number of occurrences and I could waste 1/2 hour during an afternoon.

I watched the video and thought the explanation of the current situation accurate. Andrew Marr talked in a similar vein on a New Statesman video.

As the above men said - everyone (apart from those making money from the war) wants it to end. But it won't end just because millions of people the world over demonstrate against it. Those demonstrations are causing yet more hatred amongst the populations of the countries where they occur.
Despite that, it would appear that both Israel and Hamas are close to reaching agreement on a truce to enable the release of the hostages.

I though all mention of the "Magic Money Tree" had been abandoned since Rishi found one during the pandemic. It obviously didn't take root then?

The so called 'Magic Money Tree' (the MMT) has existed for decades; ever since the ending of pinning currency value to the gold standard in the early 1970s.

It was that which enabled the Labour government to pull the country back from financial disaster in the aftermath of the global financial disaster by creating the money to bail out the banks that needed it and to put enough money into bank reserves to guarantee that any bank account with deposits of up to £85,000 in value would be guaranteed payment if their bank failed.

It was the MMT that enabled the Bank of England to prop up the pound when it dropped in value after the Brexit vote.

It was the MMT that Theresa May used to bribe the DUP into supporting her government after the 2017 general election.

It was the MMT which enabled the covid expenditure of £billions on furlough, business support, test and trace and procurement of dodgy PPE.

It's called money creation and the Bank of England does it all the time. As do commercial banks, under licence from the BoE when they make loans of any description.

Where do people think that money comes from?

Reports that the IDF have admitted to killing their own people in the October attack.They ONLY admitted it when the evidence showed that damage and injuries could only have been caused by tanks and helicopters.HAMAS have neither tanks nor helicopters .
I am no supporter of Hamas ,I am also no supporter of IDF who have been guilty of atrocities for decades .I say again ,take off your blinkers and see whats staring you in the face .This whole situation suited Israel and Netanyhu in their quest to rid themselves of Palestinians .

Nobody is arguing and it's you who have just continued the conversation. Now tell me, whose time did you waste and who asked you to do that Dinahmo?

I wonder how often you reverse your need to play prefect and thank everyone who has spared time to start threads and add to them?

There is a huge war of misinformation going on.

Channel 14 is an Israeli channel that broadcasts so called News- where the news are not given by journalists at all.

Recently saying that - '12,320 terrorists we have eliminated?'

And then the recognition lands, on the channel 14 website all the Palestinians that were reportedly killed are terrorists. Terrorist babies, terrorist girls, elderly and old women terrorists, disabled and doctors and teachers terrorists, all of them are terrorists, that we "went out". They create the clear equation that every Arab is a terrorist, and every Arab is a Death. So not even in the context of an opinion column, but right under an informative package. It's hard to argue afterwards that Israel does not commit murder with an intention; after all, they said on Channel 14.

(translated from Hebrew, hence the rather stilted language).

Casdon
I am sorry not to have got back to you sooner in reply to:

"I can find your assertion about PFIs mentioned anywhere at all Ilovecheese, could you post the reference you have found please?"

The sorts of phrases that she uses that worry me are ones like:

" We will forge a new partnership with the private sector to ensure that firms can invest, grow and create decent, well-paid work " from her paper A New Business Model for Britain.

Then this from The FT
"Rachel Reeves will next week announce new curbs on Labour’s plan to invest in new low-carbon energy production by pledging that every £1 invested by the party’s proposed “national wealth fund” will have to attract at least £3 of private sector investment."

The this Guardian editorial
"
The party is convinced growth can be generated from classical Keynesian stimulus: a major expansion in capital investment. This will come from both the public sector – in the form of£28bn-per-year investmentin green projects by the end of the parliament – and, more importantly, from the private sector. "

See this, to me , sounds like more PFIs. Her paper is actually quite positive, but the involvement of the private sector didn't end well last time.
Anyway, this is diverging a long way from the subject of this thread, but I didn't want to ignore your question.

Thanks Ilovecheese, I understand where you have formed that impression now. I’m not convinced that what she’s proposing constitutes a PFI equivalent, because the downfall of PFIs, apart from the inexperienced public sector negotiations which resulted in some poor deals, was the long term payback requirement. I guess the devil will be in the detail though, and I’d agree that it’s something that needs a close eye on it.

May I thank you as well Ilovecheese, as they are interesting points.

I would be surprised if they went for PPI Casdon. I would be great if Labour used social media rather better than they do and there was some channel we could send questions to so they could explain.

I It

I think Reeves is very optimistic about getting a £3 for every £1 of state investment from the private sector. But, Labour does seem to have been wooing the private sector pretty hard, so perhaps they're on a promise...

I have to say that 'Keynesian' is music to my ears, though.

Wonder what the payback might be? From memory wasn’t PFI hugely profitable for the investors? Less so for the country?

Isn't this thread about Starmer's position re the Palestinian Situation?

Fleurpepper there are some mind boggling figures associated with pfi - and the next Chancellor of the Exchequer seems intent on signing this country up for more? It’s a meandering thread surely? It implies that Starmer won’t be electorally disadvantaged by his stance on the crisis in Israel and that he will become the next PM.

Sorry to derail, Fp, but I don't think that Starmer's position on Palestine is going to radically alter the result of the next GE. It feels almost irrelevant.

It might cut Labour's majority, possibly to the point of a hung parliament, but I don't think the country has any appetite for the tories.

That's true but I think there is a strong movement at union level who find the attitude of Starmer unacceptable and who are now acting to support Palestine by blocking arms trading leftfootforward.org/2023/10/over-150-trade-unionists-block-israeli-arms-factory-in-kent/
Quite what they will do at the next GE who knows? Starmer has certainly let them down.

TONY Blair is helping Keir Starmer build relationships with political leaders in the Middle East, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The National

TB illegal war supposed WMD

This is not a war Israel against Hamas

Israel are bombing Palestinians including woman children and babies in the illegal occupied territory of Gaza

Sadly UK America are aiding Israel arming, politically

What a state the Labour Party are in.

Fleurpepper

Isn't this thread about Starmer's position re the Palestinian Situation?

It Page 19 on my tablet Fleurpepper. Things do go off topic after a while. Comment in the first few pages seems reasonable but after 19 pages ...?

Grany

TONY Blair is helping Keir Starmer build relationships with political leaders in the Middle East, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The National

TB illegal war supposed WMD

This is not a war Israel against Hamas

Israel are bombing Palestinians including woman children and babies in the illegal occupied territory of Gaza

Sadly UK America are aiding Israel arming, politically

What a state the Labour Party are in.

But you only read and repeat things that run the Labour Party down Grany. Why should anyone take any notice when your bias is so extreme?

@ToryFibs
• Labour minimum wage proposal £10.00 per hour 🔴
• Tory minimum wage policy £11.44 per hour 🔵
• Green Party minimum wage proposal is £15.00 per hour 🟢

Grany

@ToryFibs
• Labour minimum wage proposal £10.00 per hour 🔴
• Tory minimum wage policy £11.44 per hour 🔵
• Green Party minimum wage proposal is £15.00 per hour 🟢

It’s extremely easy to promise a minimum wage of £15 per hour when you know you haven’t a snowball’s in hell chance of forming the Government that would implement this