Covid Inquiry

It was not only a matter of ‘keeping businesses viable’, without furlough payments what would the employees have done?

Germanshepherdsmum
I have never supported Johnson, though I am a Conservative voter and am likely to remain so.

Younger people should, imo, take priority over the old when it comes to life-saving procedures if there is a choice to be made.

From the Enqiry
On Monday, the inquiry heard that Mr Johnson had, according to a note read from the diary of a former private secretary, asked why the economy was being destroyed “for people who will die anyway soon”, in the days before the country went into lockdown.

Although some now declare no support for Johnson, those who have supported and do support this government have also supported this 'wealth for the individual' driven Conservative Party and have given them the opportunity to carry out this Parties views.

I would like to hear more from the enquiry about any views expressed by this government about the young, the poor and the disabled during Covid too. There is a very big difference in not stressfully treating an elderly dying person and allowing a virus to kill off huge tranches of our older and frailer population.

Yes, this government did try to keep businesses viable in some cases but that still chimes with the "wealth is power, wealth is success" views of the authoritarian party running the country. On the flip side it also had a catastrophic effect with the Eat Out to Help Out campaign.

If we clarify which sort of Conservative Party we had and have at least people will know what they are voting for next time.

Iam64

The confirmation of the heavy drinking, total lack of social distancing in Downing Street has me wondering how high the prevalence of covid was amongst staff. We know Johnson was infected after his daft comments about meeting and shaking hands with covid patients but how many others at number 10?

Didn’t quite a lot of ministers all have Covid more or less at once? I seem to remember they did. The staff who weren’t in the headlines must have been going down like flies at that time as well I imagine.

It’s important to acknowledge, not everyone wants to have life extended when in fact, it’s a life only kept going by machines and medical interventions. Pneumonia wasn’t known as the old man’s friend for no reason

MerylStreep

Freya5
You’ve obviously never worked in care homes. If you had you would have heard many residents say they just want to go to sleep and not wake up, why? they are tired 😥

I have heard people say that when life becomes a struggle.

I am assuming that the positive side to all this is to learn lessons on how to deal properly with a crises.

At the moment it is a huge lesson on how not to deal with a crises.

The confirmation of the heavy drinking, total lack of social distancing in Downing Street has me wondering how high the prevalence of covid was amongst staff. We know Johnson was infected after his daft comments about meeting and shaking hands with covid patients but how many others at number 10?

I am just not interested in a covid enquiry that shows me that the Johnson government was dysfunctional and morally bankrupt, oh and did a lot of swearing. I knew that. We all knew that, even those who may still support him knew about his 'skill set'. There are really important issues to be dealt with and yes I agree with Dickens they should not be dealt with in the middle of a crisis . So there needs to be an opportunity to look at lockdowns etc without people getting defensive, but I suppose we have to get this out of the way first.

Freya5
You’ve obviously never worked in care homes. If you had you would have heard many residents say they just want to go to sleep and not wake up, why? they are tired 😥

Excess deaths were higher than usual in 2022. The impact on children and other vulnerable groups has been considerable. There are consequences for any decisions made. As I say I was a supporter of lockdowns but I dont think I would be now. And obviously some of it (exercise once a day) was we can seen now counter productive.

Galaxy Judgments on age alone are never going to be acceptable. Pandemic viruses like COVID affect different age groups.

The Spanish flu pandemic at the end of the 1910's affected mainly those in their prime 20 -50, old people were far less affected. With COVID, its 'target' age group was the elderly. Younger people got it, but unless they had specific vulnerabilities, were unlikely to get it severely or die. With children fatalities were even fewer.

Since it was older people who were mostly affected, and 'older' seemed to mean over 60, which includes many people still at work, also most of the volunteers who are the mainstay of the charity sector and people who otherwise had a potential remaining life of 30 years or more, the idea that we were all expendable is, to put it mildly, offensive.

Any COVID strategy should have concentrated on protecting older people because they were most at risk.

I very much agree with GSM’s comments.

Some old people just exist, no other word for it, kept alive by medication.

There is so much to be said but if nothing else, Johnson's comments about letting the old die (reported everywhere except the DM) must be a wake up call to the grey haired Tory hinterland in the Shires and deserves to be could well be the kiss of death for the party

I know in recent times he’s gone very anti vacc/conspiracy theorist but, for the first year or so of the pandemic I think Dr John Campbell’s advice protected and saved a lot of people. I listened to his blog every evening to find out where we were vaccine wise etc and listened to the reports from people in other countries. It was because of him that we were aware of what was happening in China and prepared ourselves for what we could see coming.

I'm not shocked at all, Hetty58.

It very rapidly became apparent that the government didn't have a clue and I already knew that Johnson was totally unfit to be PM.

I had twitter to thank for information, 'gossip' about Johnson, Cummings, etc. which turned out to be true, and useful links to covid research. Also the Guardian reporting in depth what was happening in other countries.

Far more reliable than the emasculated 'news' coming from our main TV channels (I'm not a TV watcher, I prefer the written word)

There's an interesting paper here analysing 12 days of BBC & ITV news bulletins at the beginning of the pandemic. The conclusion is that the 'government line' was being closely followed, with very little mention of what was happening in other countries to counter the virus, even if it was successful. And with very little questioning of UK inaction...

Now that we absolutely know that the government was dysfunctional and irresponsible those news stories look a bit sick...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-4446.13010

Hetty I never said I was shocked. I was well aware of the ineptitude of the government at that time. I am horrified by the obvious callousness. I think your comments about the value of life are spot on.

I agree Hetty58

I'm not shocked or horrified - at all - by the enquiry. It's just exactly what I expected. Sad, but true. My observations at the time were spot on.

Instead, I'm surprised by how many are shocked and horrified. Were you all asleep throughout it all?

What I do find depressing are the opinions of self worth, based on some 'usefulness to society' value, set against a cost to the NHS and taxpayers. I've never thought I was a mother Octopus, producing plentiful young, guarding and nurturing the next generation - while slowly starving and fading away, my purpose done.

If you think along those (weird) lines, what about other values? Our experience and wisdom, our examples, opinions and influence - 'worth' a great deal?

I believe humans (all of us) have considerable intrinsic worth, just being, not doing. We are priceless, individual, precious - and can decide how much medical intervention we'd accept for a longer life. No government should ever be allowed to decide for us.

Galaxy

At times of crisis there are really difficult decisions to be made, I dont mean in the Johnson way which wasnt decision making just chaos. But say Starmer or anyone else who can function is PM in another pandemic there will be decisions that have to be made which balance loss of life through the virus to the damage done by lockdowns. We can pretend that those decisions wont have to be made if we want but not sure how helpful it is.

Perhaps those decisions should be taken outside of the crises that arise - rather than wait and then respond with a knee-jerk?

Of course there will eventually be another public health crisis, and it would be sensible to start planning now and being pro-active rather than kicking the ball into the long grass - again.

Decisions made under duress are not always the best decisions.

Iam64

I’ve been more fortunate marydoll. Ten good years on biological treatments give me good quality life. Huge risks of course 🙏🏿

Iam, I'm having a break to see if the ghastly side effects subside and hopefully try a third one. No more options left.

I have a whole lot of living to do! However, I have no wish to fight to the end, regardless of cost at the expense of others. As I have said, I have had more than my fair share.
At the age of twenty two, a newly wed, my husband was told that I wouldn't live much longer. Forty six years later, thanks to our wonderful NHS, I am still here.

Also, I do not think I would support shielding if there was a next time. It was draconian and I was deprived of medical treatment and family life for nearly two years, I couldn't even have the district nurse in my home, I was so vulnerable.
There has to be a better way, I just don't know what it is. I do hope some good comes out of this enquiry.

I was talking about if it happened again grandmabatty, Johnsons decisions were led as always by his own deeply damaged character.

No Freya, I would not. I speak for myself and about myself.. If you wish to fight to the very end regardless of the cost to the NHS and at the expense of treatment being given to others that’s your choice. I don’t.

Galaxy I agree that government have to make hard decisions, however Johnson et al lied about it. Matt Hancock and his ring around care homes? The lies and lack of humanity are what bothers me.

I’ve been more fortunate marydoll. Ten good years on biological treatments give me good quality life. Huge risks of course 🙏🏿

Iam64, for the second time I too have had to stop them.
I only lasted three months on this new one.
However, I am grateful for the respite they gave me.