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Homelessness is a lifestyle choice according to Suella!

(188 Posts)
CvD66 Sun 05-Nov-23 12:26:17

Under this Tory period in power, homelessness has increased by 75% (271k in Jan 2023 according to Shelter) due in part to high rents and other costs of living, reduced mental and social service support and other Tory cuts. Our beloved Home Sec has decided homelessness is a lifestyle choice. In addition to her natural callousness, she now intends to prevent charities from giving tents to homeless people. Has this woman no grams of human kindness?
Notably under the last Labour government, homeless figures fell from just over 100k to 50k

Greyisnotmycolour Wed 08-Nov-23 19:19:36

If the Home Secretary really wanted a solution to the problem she would be promoting the need for housing/shelters for addicts but she isn't. It's not just "foreigners" sleeping in tents, prisoners discharged with nowhere to go are issued with a tent. Leave the old folk to die with COVID, paint over murals for children, take tents away from the homeless - Tories eh? Don't you just love them ? And still people will vote for them because they will keep taxes low, look after the economy and police our streets - oh! Wait a moment, they can't do any of those thing either.

foxie48 Wed 08-Nov-23 19:18:55

Addicts cannot get themselves sorted whilst living on the streets, it's just too difficult but giving someone a stable place to stay can make a huge difference. I'm sure most of us understand this but homeless people are just like you and me, they aren't a different species of human.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 08-Nov-23 19:09:39

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Rory Stewart was supporting the Canadian way of dealing with the homeless on the street.

They give each person about £4500 and apparently it has been spectacularly successful.

Depends why you are on the street, £4,500 would keep an addict high (alcohol or drugs) for a while…

It was found that not so many as you might think did that. Most got themselves into accommodation, and then went on to get employment and a stable existence. If the evidence proves as Stewart described I see no earthly reason why it couldn’t be tried in the U.K. it would save an enormous amount.

MaizieD Wed 08-Nov-23 19:01:37

Germanshepherdsmum

This is true Meryl but some don’t want to accept it, just as they don’t want to accept that some would rather live on the streets.

No, I'm quite willing to accept that; people have chosen to live rough for many decades.

But I'm not willing to accept that 220,000 have made it a lifestyle choice since the tories came to power.

Nor am I happy about racist crap stuff about them being 'foreigners'.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Nov-23 19:01:11

Whitewavemark2

Rory Stewart was supporting the Canadian way of dealing with the homeless on the street.

They give each person about £4500 and apparently it has been spectacularly successful.

Depends why you are on the street, £4,500 would keep an addict high (alcohol or drugs) for a while…

foxie48 Wed 08-Nov-23 18:59:28

MerylStreep

My nephew has been on the streets for years. He has drug induced psychosis. My sister, a senior social worker pulled every string she could to help, and he got it, often.
I was about to give him his last chance ( work) when he f+&£#d up spectacularly the eve before my daughter’s wedding.
As some of you know, there are some who just can’t be helped.

It's so sad isn't it? It worries me though that your sister had to pull every string she could to get him help. I think there's a very judgemental approach to people with mental health difficulties, especially if they are drug or alcohol related. We still treat people with diseases caused by smoking or being overweight but somehow see drug and alcohol related illnesses in a different way as if, because they might be seen as being a result of "bad behaviour", the ill person is less deserving of our help. A person in my extended family was very ill for a very long time, they also had lots of support, many hospital admissions because they were close to death because of over doses of one kind or another and so many false starts which led to disappointment. I spoke to this person today and ATM all is stable, about as good as it could be but no one holds their breath as it's always so fragile! Don't give up on your nephew, he still might find a way through his problems. I feel for your sister, the constant worry about her son must be terrible.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 08-Nov-23 18:54:53

Rory Stewart was supporting the Canadian way of dealing with the homeless on the street.

They give each person about £4500 and apparently it has been spectacularly successful.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Nov-23 18:48:41

Sorry to hear your story MerylStreep I totally understand 💐

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Nov-23 18:48:24

This is true Meryl but some don’t want to accept it, just as they don’t want to accept that some would rather live on the streets.

MerylStreep Wed 08-Nov-23 18:41:14

My nephew has been on the streets for years. He has drug induced psychosis. My sister, a senior social worker pulled every string she could to help, and he got it, often.
I was about to give him his last chance ( work) when he f+&£#d up spectacularly the eve before my daughter’s wedding.
As some of you know, there are some who just can’t be helped.

3nanny6 Wed 08-Nov-23 18:37:09

Most of the Torys forget that when we had Covid not that long ago every borough vowed to take in every homeless person in their area and get them off the streets to safety. Many of the homeless in my area were put in hostels and B@Bs and also provided with meals and addicts plus alcoholics were taken in. Apart from about 3 hardened street people who wanted to be on the streets the others went in somewhere. Then came the big government promise all the homeless would ne housed temporarily until a permanent property came up all very good and everyone happy. What ended up happening once people could safely be outside again they were all given several days to vacate where they were staying and kicked back out to the same lifestyle. Shame on the government letting them all down and now look at Suella she wants to even take their tents off them at the time of year when at least they could have some shelter and could try and survive with a tent and sleeping bag some people do not have an ounce of compassion.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Nov-23 17:56:49

The link shows how few homeless people needed help in Finland compared to the number in the UK. OK, the population of Finland is much smaller. The Finnish model would be hugely expensive here. It would require a considerable increase in taxes imho.

Casdon Wed 08-Nov-23 17:36:25

There was an interesting article in the Big Issue last week about homelessness, with some focus on solutions for rough sleepers. The Finnish model is successful, it just needs the commitment of successive governments to implement it in the UK.
www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-people-are-homeless-in-the-uk-and-what-can-you-do-about-it/

Kamiso Wed 08-Nov-23 17:23:01

GrannyGravy13

I think the main problem is that the majority of hostels and/or temporary accommodation will not allow those with alcohol or drug addictions in. If these troubled souls could and indeed want to access help for their addictions it is a step in the right direction.

People with addictions have to want to be helped, it is impossible to help an addict if they are unwilling, whether they be on the pavement or in a mansion.

I have read more than just the headline , what she implied was that we shouldn’t allow tent cities to pop up in and around our major cities. This is not an unreasonable want in the 21st Century.

Glad to see some common sense being applied.

JaneJudge Wed 08-Nov-23 17:20:29

I like your post too TerriBull.

I have often wondered why we can't build non standard construction building to house people? Pre fabs used to be really common and some still stand the test of time that were built after the war. What about these wooden lodges too? so much cheaper to construct but warm, habitable buildings. Why do we not look at alternatives with respect to building homes?

Dickens Wed 08-Nov-23 11:46:04

A good observation Terribull.

And you're right. the problem of homelessness is not specific to Britain.

When I lived in affluent Norway - it was evident they also had a problem similarly. Obviously, not on the same scale, nevertheless, the reasons for it were much the same as ours, insecure housing, poverty (in spite of a comprehensive welfare system) and addiction coupled with mental health problems.

I don't think removing the tents will do much to solve the problems. No-one wants 'tent cities' within their boundaries, but without the tents, won't there just be homeless people sprawled on the pavements etc on various bits of bedding, blankets and cardboard? The homeless won't just disappear, they have to 'live' somewhere and will simply go back to what they did before the tents became an option... shop doorways, alleyways, pavements, etc, etc.

Hostels won't take in addicts - and do the addicts even want to be in hostels anyway, so I appreciate it's a heck of a problem for any government to solve. But I don't think SB has chosen a particularly helpful way of beginning to deal with it.

It's a problem all over Europe so it might be a good idea to see what other countries are doing to deal with it. I know in Denmark they are using steel shipping containers as temporary housing modules, with outside 'community' areas. Which is probably one working solution... but what do you do if the homeless individuals are disruptive addicts? Such encampments would soon become problem areas.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Nov-23 10:30:29

Good post Terribull.

TerriBull Wed 08-Nov-23 10:07:44

I perceive the "homelessness" problem isn't only with us in Britain, much of the western world is beset with it at the moment, particularly the US, where some of its cities have become veritable "no go" areas, in particular San Francisco which would have been considered one of their showcase cities. From what I read, there are a myriad of reasons why this is so, The US is in the midst of a dire opiate crisis, and there is a school of thought that much of this has been orchestrated by big pharma. Unfortunately, where they lead we often follow. So wading through pavement deep people, sprawled out off their faces often makes it untenable for businesses to carry on trading in those areas, couple that with the fact that there is a very lax attitude to shoplifting, no prosecutions under $1,000 dollars in many places, which again means retailers can't take those sort of hits when they are continually seeing their stocks being lifted without any recourse to the law. I think it's possible that an individual could go into one of these tent cities without addictions or mental health problems but end up like many of those around them, because one will feed the other. Possibly part of Suella Braverman's rationale in not handing out tents, I don't know, I don't support her extreme stances on many issues I might add, just in case that is construed that I do. I do wonder how many prominent American cities will become ghost towns before their government decides to act. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to slip into a state of lawlessness and it only illustrates the widening gulf between the haves and the have nots. I'm reading a book set in The dust bowls of America during the time of the Great Depression where so many were living itinerant subsistence existences and sometimes I think we could be forgiven in thinking that one of the worlds most developed nations are regressing back to those times sad

Of course like here, and everywhere in the developed world, it would seem it's the same old story, unaffordable rents, wages too low to afford what's on offer, a general lack of housing stock. As I said not just here in Britain, but in all sorts of places, Canada and Australia, who'd have thought, big countries, lots of space to build one would would assume. Add to that mass migration, which I'm not trying to construe in a negative sense, people always have and always will move around the world for better conditions, my family certainly did! However, when maybe a small country such as Britain adds 5 million or so to the population, then its already inadequate housing stock is going to be greatly affected, and many of those people pile into the already over crowded south east, where even if you go out into the 50 mile radius around London, it's still unaffordable! Into that mix, can be added the fact that families don't always stay together in the way they did in past times and when the nuclear family splits, another home has to be found. Previously, I imagine couples would possibly just front out impossible relationships until they could release themselves once the kids had grown and flown the nest

Suffice to say a myriad of complex situations that pertain to homelessness. Shelter is one of a handful of charities I support. When I read how much money we throw at the United Nations for example, my thoughts were "I wish that money could be directed into subsidised housing instead of being wasted, but sadly I know it doesn't work like that.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Nov-23 09:30:34

foxie48 I echo your post mental health along with additions doesn’t differentiate between princes or paupers.

A supportive family can only do so much, sometimes the person with the issues just will not accept help until they are at absolute zero and unfortunately it is often too late.

foxie48 Wed 08-Nov-23 09:23:40

Unfortunately, a good education and a supportive and caring middle class family doesn't protect everyone from mental illness or the psychotic episodes that can be a feature of that illness, sadly neither are the responsibilities of children enough to keep some people sane. Mental health services in most parts of the country are completely overstretched, going private is an extremely expensive option which is out of the reach of most families (however desperate they are to find help) and for many people with serious mental health illnesses, there's no cure or magic medicine. It can be the cruelest type of illness to have as it robs people of their employment, their relationships, their home and security and often their hope for the future. Many people have mental health problems during their life but most recover, very sadly there are those who don't. It is these who are over represented in prisons, homeless, alcoholic or addicted to drugs or appearing in A&E in hospitals. Our Mental health services are a National scandal, care in the community is non existent and obtaining in hospital care often only happens when someone is sectioned.

Iam64 Wed 08-Nov-23 08:51:52

As for Suella - bring back heseltine, Clarke and co. The current crop of heartless right wingers are a menace

Iam64 Wed 08-Nov-23 08:50:26

MayBee70, I’m aware gsm can defend herself. My response to your question to her on whether she’d have been able to ‘deal with her problems’ if she’d ‘come from the lowest echelons of society or not been academically intelligent’ reminded me of working with the kind of people you describe, who had mental health problems. I was impressed by the way some families and individuals managed in difficult circumstances. A level of determination, recognition of the return of voices, or suicidal thoughts, energy levels plummeting or increasing dangerously often led to a phone call asking for help.
We were a well established community team who had established relationships with service users and other agencies. Sadly this is much less likely today

Vintagewhine Wed 08-Nov-23 07:25:09

She's a loose cannon and although not a conservative supporter I'm relieved that she's not representative of mainstream conservatives. Her lack of empathy and willingness to appeal to the worst in people makes her unfit to be an MP let alone Home Secretary.

Casdon Tue 07-Nov-23 22:45:56

Tomorrow’s i headline.
According to Sky News the i says Suella Braverman's attempt to ban tents used by homeless people was not cleared by the prime minister and left Downing Street officials blindsided.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 07-Nov-23 21:54:53

It was quite simply a matter of having to do so in order to keep my job and look after my child. There was no choice.