The Fifty Years War, Israel and the Arabs

This afternoon I watched the last of the series and the follow up with Norma Percy made this year. NP is a Jew, born in the US and I found her approach to making the series very interesting. She shows highlights from the series to very good effect and if you are wondering about whether to watch the series or not, I think this would be a good taster. She talks about how she gets these key players to talk and tbh it's hearing first hand from these people that make the series so compelling. It is not in the least bit biased, it's factual with the benefit of inside information, she says if one thing confirms your bias then she hopes very soon that you'll see something that will confound it (my interpretation). Excellent series, I'm determined to watch more of her work. fwiw she did the Obama health care series which explained the twists and turns of getting his Affordable Care Act through and that was also excellent.

It was good BBC documentary showing two sides and their stories, but it was unbalanced because the land in Palestine was peopled by mostly Palestinians and some Jewish people living in peace together. Then the Nakba 700,000 driven off their land becoming refugees to make way for the Jewish people. Then Nakba is happening again today.

Explained short 15 min video

m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=The+holy+land+and+us+our+untold+stories

Thanks I'll have a look at it. I'm recovering from a nasty virus so watching more TV than normal!

Another well balanced and interesting documentary is "The Holy Land and Us". It looks at Palestinian families and Jewish settlers. It's made by Judge Rinder who is Jewish. Not so much a general history but personal family stories www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001k3w3

I've now watched parts 4 and 5 of the series. Some of it is chilling and I found the role of Yitzhak Shamir, Prime minister of Israel serving two terms (1983–1984, 1986–1992) to be particularly chilling. Again, thoroughly recommend.

Fascists in power Netanyahu and his ministers

The IDF are brutally occupying Gaza.
They have always picked on children, going to school. Interrogating, intimidating, Throwing gas canisters, blowing up schools. The IDF are there only to enforce apartheid.

Palestinians are glad there were marches, to free Palestine, a ceasefire; in many countries, but can’t understand why Britain did not ask for a ceasefire it seems many of the worlds leaders are ignoring them. Peter Osborne speaking from Gaza.

War crimes genocide is being committed Netanyahu does not respect the international criminal court.

Netanyahu’s corruption is evident not only in the well-documented cases of receiving excessive gifts and benefits and ‘buying’ favourable media coverage, but also in massive arms deals involving bribes on a far larger scale.

The Prime Minister’s anti-democratic assault on Israel’s judicial system, thus, serves two purposes: to free up his government to behave as they please in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPTs) and to ensure that he never faces prosecution for his political and personal malfeasance.

Today, as Israel continues to pound Gaza – dropping more bombs in six days than in the entire 2014 conflict; killing more children in three weeks than killed globally in all conflicts over any year since 2019 – it is clear that horrific future is upon us.

The future that prominent Jews had foretold could happen in a letter after the 1948 Nakba. What Netanyahu ministers are saying now is truly horrific.

In a hospital a four year old boy is asking for his parents they have been killed, he is asking to get up out of bed to see his parents he doesn’t know his legs have been amputated. video too heartbreaking.

There is a thread on Twitter detailing with videos the IDF continuing assault on children and schools.

Israel has a terrific amount of powerful weapons billions supplied by America they could have strategically sought Hamas without the slaughter genocide of Palestinians.
One of the weapons has blades attached that rip you to shreds.

Many times in the past and now Netanyahu could have agreed to peace with the Palestinians always he refused, because he wants all of Palestinians land for Israel. And Palestinians gone.

Ceasefire Now. Peace negotiations.

America and Britain back Netanyahu don’t want a ceasefire they are not helping bring peace.

It’s another 25/30 years on since this was made and problems remain.
The much mooted two state solution is no closer and had been hardly mentioned til recently.
I will watch with interest.

Grantanow

Only 50 years? I thought hostilities between Israel and the Arabs started in 1948 after the UN voted to partition Palestine and the Israelis declared their State after which it was attacked by three Arab states.

It was fifty years when the documentary was made back in the nineties.

Most of the people commenting are now dead.

maddyone

No vintagewine, reporting the bombing of a hospital inside Gaza as having been bombed by the Israelis when in actual fact it was bombed by Hamas because their bomb misfired is a lie! It was corrected later but initially it was a lie. It tells us that the BBC would rather believe what Hamas claimed than what the IDF said. Hamas would have known immediately that their bomb misfired and put out propaganda that the IDF bombed the hospital. People believe that lie unfortunately.
So no, what’s upsetting my friends from America is that the BBC have put out lies. Corrected later, but lies to start with, showing a clear bias for Hamas.

That's a pity as many media made the same report and later corrected it. It was corrected very quickly and to the best of my knowledge there's still some dispute about who fired what.

No vintagewine, reporting the bombing of a hospital inside Gaza as having been bombed by the Israelis when in actual fact it was bombed by Hamas because their bomb misfired is a lie! It was corrected later but initially it was a lie. It tells us that the BBC would rather believe what Hamas claimed than what the IDF said. Hamas would have known immediately that their bomb misfired and put out propaganda that the IDF bombed the hospital. People believe that lie unfortunately.
So no, what’s upsetting my friends from America is that the BBC have put out lies. Corrected later, but lies to start with, showing a clear bias for Hamas.

Only 50 years? I thought hostilities between Israel and the Arabs started in 1948 after the UN voted to partition Palestine and the Israelis declared their State after which it was attacked by three Arab states.

As someone who doesn't sleep well I listen to a great deal of the world service at a time when it would be listened to in the US. I have not heard lies but I've heard quite a few reports from inside Gaza which have been pretty harrowing. I wonder if it's this that's upsetting people.

Hamas are terrorists. Full stop. If the BBC supports them, what does that make them ? If they truly are supporters then they should not receive any public funding whatsoever.

As I said earlier, I watch the BBC every day. For the most part, I feel it’s a good source of news, but the reporting of the situation in Israel has been very poor in my opinion. To refuse to call Hamas a terrorist organisation, when our country, and many others have all accepted that it is so, is in my opinion not only biased, but also extremely worrying. I wonder who is in charge there and who has made this decision. Then two incidents inaccurately reported, in the favour of Hamas, is very poor reporting from our national news outlet. My Jewish friends in America have told us they are now refusing to watch the BBC because it lies! Harsh criticism indeed. I imagine they’re watching BBC World Service, I don’t think they could access our domestic service.
Anyway I agree with you that we need to access our news from a variety of sources, which we do. But I’m disappointed that the BBC service, that I used to be so proud of, is now regarded so poorly by people who are not in Britain.

growstuff

foxie48

maddyone it's really difficult to get unbiased information these days the media is always trying to hook us by giving us what we want to read or see. I subscribe to a number of newspapers on the left and on the right + an American one. I dodge in and out comparing what they say, what they think is important and I do a lot of my own research. I dislike the interviewing style of some of the BBC people but tbh I don't find them anywhere near as biased as most newspapers. I'm naturally on the left of centre and eg find some Telegraph reports make me want to scream but I also find the same with the Guardian . For me, the important thing is to try to be open minded, well informed and prepared to have long held views challenged. Works for me, anyway.

Have you tried including some European online newspapers too? I find they're much better at "foreign" news than most British or English language sources. Soem newspapers, such as "Deutsche Welle" have English language versions. I also read Israeli sources which aren't behind a paywall.

Yes, I like the New European too. I don't think anyone can rely on one source of information these days but if I had to, it would still be the BBC. There was a poll a few months ago that asked people if they thought the BBC was biased and it was amusing to see how many thought it was biased to the left and how many thought it was biased to the right! I think there's a natural tendency to think something is biased if it doesn't accord with your own views which is why it's so necessary to read the stuff you disagree with as well as the stuff that you do.

merlotgran

I posted this link on one of the other Israel/Palestine threads. It’s Michal Weitz’s account of reading her great grandfather Joseph’s diaries and I think the best example of how young Israelis are questioning the rights of settlement and expulsion of Palestinians that their parents and grandparents have accepted without question.

It’s very enlightening.

Storyville - Blue Box BBC4 available on iPlayer.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001q7qz

I've watched this documentary and it's a thought-provoking and refreshing change from the entrenched one-sidedness of so many comments.

If people don't have time to watch the whole film, this summary is worth reading:

businessdoceurope.com/hot-docs-interview-michal-weits-on-blue-box/

foxie48

maddyone it's really difficult to get unbiased information these days the media is always trying to hook us by giving us what we want to read or see. I subscribe to a number of newspapers on the left and on the right + an American one. I dodge in and out comparing what they say, what they think is important and I do a lot of my own research. I dislike the interviewing style of some of the BBC people but tbh I don't find them anywhere near as biased as most newspapers. I'm naturally on the left of centre and eg find some Telegraph reports make me want to scream but I also find the same with the Guardian . For me, the important thing is to try to be open minded, well informed and prepared to have long held views challenged. Works for me, anyway.

Have you tried including some European online newspapers too? I find they're much better at "foreign" news than most British or English language sources. Soem newspapers, such as "Deutsche Welle" have English language versions. I also read Israeli sources which aren't behind a paywall.

I posted this link on one of the other Israel/Palestine threads. It’s Michal Weitz’s account of reading her great grandfather Joseph’s diaries and I think the best example of how young Israelis are questioning the rights of settlement and expulsion of Palestinians that their parents and grandparents have accepted without question.

It’s very enlightening.

Storyville - Blue Box BBC4 available on iPlayer.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001q7qz

Thank you foxie48 for flagging up this series. I've just watched the first one and will continue to watch the others.

maddyone it's really difficult to get unbiased information these days the media is always trying to hook us by giving us what we want to read or see. I subscribe to a number of newspapers on the left and on the right + an American one. I dodge in and out comparing what they say, what they think is important and I do a lot of my own research. I dislike the interviewing style of some of the BBC people but tbh I don't find them anywhere near as biased as most newspapers. I'm naturally on the left of centre and eg find some Telegraph reports make me want to scream but I also find the same with the Guardian . For me, the important thing is to try to be open minded, well informed and prepared to have long held views challenged. Works for me, anyway.

Sadly I no longer trust the BBC to be impartial, not just on this issue either. I watch the BBC news every day but I find their coverage often biased. I’m very saddened by this.

But maddy the bbc did correct the misinformation shortly afterwards. With so much information coming all the time sometimes these things happen.

Certainly no agenda attached to this series. There are witness accounts from both sides as well as balanced TV footage.

It’s so informative you are able to draw your own conclusions which help to form an understanding of the current conflict.

maddyone

Thanks foxie, I will watch it, it I will bear in mind that the BBC have an agenda as has been clearly shown these last few weeks, in that they refuse to call Hamas a terrorist group, and they have misreported (in Hamas’s favour) two events and had to apologise later.

Made by Norma Percy in 1998 so I doubt there's an agenda that has anything to do with today's BBC. She's an acclaimed documentary maker and most of the film is in interviews with key players of the time from all the countries and interest groups including King Hussein of Jordon, Yasser Arafat, Nixon, Kissinger, Israeli presidents, Moshe Dayan etc etc Absolutely fascinating.

Thanks foxie, I will watch it, it I will bear in mind that the BBC have an agenda as has been clearly shown these last few weeks, in that they refuse to call Hamas a terrorist group, and they have misreported (in Hamas’s favour) two events and had to apologise later.