National Trust calendar - no Christian festivals

Poor old NT - so many things that it apparently does incorrectly, according to some of the above posts.

Surely we already know how the servants lived and that hundreds of people laboured on the estates and in the grand houses. I was watching Monty Don in America recently and he featured a grand house, built in the Italianate style on marshes south of Miami. At one time there were over 1000 employed on building the house, and the drainage needed in order to create the gardens. That little series of visits to American gardens was eyewatering, as was the amount of money involved, most of it earned during the latter half of the 19thC and the first of the 20thC. Those people weren't enslaved but Jefferson, on his Monticello Estate had around 80 enslave peopled people at any one time. He also had slaves on his other estates.

The only stately home that I can think of that was built in the last 100 years or so is Eaton Hall, totally rebuilt in the 1960s.

According to Lost Heritage around 2000 large country homes have been demolished since 1800 so, to my mind, we should be glad that the NT and other historic houses associations are taking care of them. We are very lucky because in France few of the chateaux have much in the way of contents, because of the Revolution. Some have none apart from the odd table or chair and some old weapons.

Surely at this time of year the NT are starting to shut down the houses because they do most of the cleaning and renovation and repairs ready for the start of the next season.

No way, they are busier than ever. Our local NT house has the gardens all lit up, and the inside is decorated with traditional Christmas trees and garlands. The fireplaces are lit and they serve mince pies and mulled wine. DH is a chorister and sometimes sings at NT houses at Christmas, they have traditional family games for the kids based on old customs. The compulsory shop is open, and full of decorations and produce to purchase. The entry price is the same as normal.

Primrose53

nanna8

Virtue signalling ? What good little people they are. Pass the sick bucket ..

Whatever your creed, colour, sexual persuasion, religion, you’re welcome.

The only people it doesn’t “include” are those who would like to visit but simply cannot afford it! So you are excluded if your family are on a low income.

I visited a NT property last month and it cost £5 to park. For that we got to visit their shop and wander around the garden. Entry to the house was about £15 extra and half that for kids. Lots of the rooms are closed off. We were disappointed that you still had to pay £5 to park even though we only wanted to stay about an hour and walk in the garden.

Surely at this time of year the NT are starting to shut down the houses because they do most of the cleaning and renovation and repairs ready for the start of the next season.

If anyone is worried about non-Christian goods - the Red Cross wouldn't sell Christmas cards which mention the word Christmas at one time, although they do have a couple now!

Freya5

Marmin

Should anyone be interested in this, a quick visit to the Trust's home page shows a range of Christmas celebrations at many properties as always. A search for calendars shows a similar range of traditional publications, including advent calendars.
If the Trust has also published a calendar for non Christian members of other faiths then well done I say.

Why would they publish a non Christian calendar.
On my calendar for next year, I have every blooming holiday going, even to thanksgiving. I don't practise any other religion, so why a different one for non Christians. Just another stupid idea from overpaid officialdom. Or are non Christians offended by our celebrations. Most aren't I'm sure. Those that are, well tough. Can't please all the people all the time can we.

Have you read any of the thread, Freya?

The NT HASN'T PUBLISHED A NON CHRISTIAN CALENDAR

It was a document for volunteers.

I have checked the NT on-line shop. There are no such calendars on sale.

Marmin

Should anyone be interested in this, a quick visit to the Trust's home page shows a range of Christmas celebrations at many properties as always. A search for calendars shows a similar range of traditional publications, including advent calendars.
If the Trust has also published a calendar for non Christian members of other faiths then well done I say.

Why would they publish a non Christian calendar.
On my calendar for next year, I have every blooming holiday going, even to thanksgiving. I don't practise any other religion, so why a different one for non Christians. Just another stupid idea from overpaid officialdom. Or are non Christians offended by our celebrations. Most aren't I'm sure. Those that are, well tough. Can't please all the people all the time can we.

The system may not have been good for all but it did provide a lot of employment!

I don’t think I’ve ever been to an NT property that doesn’t spend time on the ‘Downstairs’ lot - but there’s so much more beyond that and colonialism that propped up the system, and I’d love to see that focused on as well.

nightowl

Callistemon that’s exactly what I mean though - a census list is good but I want to know more about who they were and what their daily lives entailed. I’m not convinced this would bring an outcry or anti-woke hysteria’, I think many people would find it fascinating, especially after the success of Downton Abbey where the servants were portrayed as real people (albeit in a very romanticised way).

Erddig, Wrexham
With over 250 years of ‘upstairs, downstairs’ history, discover how the Yorke family had a close relationship with their servants and commissioned portraits of them, which you can still see today. You can also tour the kitchen, still room and bakehouse.

Other NT properties which feature 'Downstairs' :

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/houses-buildings/life-below-stairs

Before anybody starts jumping up and down “queer” is now an acceptable term. LGBTQ+

I like nightowl suggestion of NT offering free or heavily subsidised entry for those on benefits or low incomes. That would be a very sensible example of inclusion, as I mentioned in my earlier post.

I don’t think it will ever happen though because they prefer to use resources on rainbow lanyards and training courses for volunteers to learn about queer folk.

Thankfully there's no age limit to be a volunteer, so GNs can all apply!

growstuff says

Ah yes! Sorry, I missed it. So where can I get one? (i.e the Inclusion and Wellness calendar, as referred to in the text of the NT document)

I don't think you can, growstuff unless you're an NT volunteer. I have looked in vain for it in the online shop...

Callistemon that’s exactly what I mean though - a census list is good but I want to know more about who they were and what their daily lives entailed. I’m not convinced this would bring an outcry or anti-woke hysteria’, I think many people would find it fascinating, especially after the success of Downton Abbey where the servants were portrayed as real people (albeit in a very romanticised way).

Yes, but most of us had ancestors who were housemaids, ag labs etc, even if they did climb the ladder to be in charge!

And while they’re at it, bring places to life with stories of the armies of staff employed there in servitude, tell us about their lives, and what they sacrificed to prop up a system that has never gone away.

When the NT included in their information about some of their houses that they had been built on the proceeds of slavery there was an outbreak of anti-woke hysteria. Can you imagine what further information on the hard lives of those who underpinned the idleness and luxury of the house owners would do to some of our citizens?

I have never seen any real information about the workers who built and maintained those huge estates, except perhaps a mention in passing of an eccentric gardener or a favourite housekeeper

We went to one NT property where there were copies of censuses listing all the staff who worked there over the years, which included information about where they were born. Surprisingly, a good proportion were not local.

Another stately home (not sure if it is NT or not) has portraits which were commissioned of some of the staff.

Primrose53

nanna8

Virtue signalling ? What good little people they are. Pass the sick bucket ..

Whatever your creed, colour, sexual persuasion, religion, you’re welcome.

The only people it doesn’t “include” are those who would like to visit but simply cannot afford it! So you are excluded if your family are on a low income.

I visited a NT property last month and it cost £5 to park. For that we got to visit their shop and wander around the garden. Entry to the house was about £15 extra and half that for kids. Lots of the rooms are closed off. We were disappointed that you still had to pay £5 to park even though we only wanted to stay about an hour and walk in the garden.

The National Trust has always had a bit of a problem with class - just like the owners of the land and properties it now owns, the poor are invisible to them. I have never seen any real information about the workers who built and maintained those huge estates, except perhaps a mention in passing of an eccentric gardener or a favourite housekeeper. It is an organisation built on privilege and much as I enjoy the houses and gardens, I find it uncomfortable to think of the class system that built and sustained them.

If the National Trust is serous about inclusion, how about looking closer to home and offering free or heavily subsidised entry for those on benefits or low incomes. And while they’re at it, bring places to life with stories of the armies of staff employed there in servitude, tell us about their lives, and what they sacrificed to prop up a system that has never gone away.

JaneJudge

I don’t know any white people that go to church. The avid church goers I know are all black with the exception of quite a few Indian families - and this is a surprise as I wasn’t aware Christianity was even a thing in India but in the South it apparently is

Yes, my Indian colleague was a staunch Roman Catholic.

I know lots of white people who go to church 🙂
Even some vicars 😁

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

MaizieD

Who said anything about the 'calendar' (which it actually isn't) being intended to be inclusive, Primrose53?.

Did you read the screenshot of the NT's explanation that AmberSpyglass posted?

The NT say it themselves and they call it a calendar!!! See Page 4.

nt.global.ssl.fastly.net/binaries/content/assets/website/national/pdf/everyone-welcome.pdf

I’m off to bed. 😴

Well, that's a few minutes of my life I'll never get back. I read the link and didn't find out anything about "inclusion calendars".

Maybe a trip to Specsavers might be the thing for you then growstuff. I even gave you the page number!! 😝

Ah yes! Sorry, I missed it. So where can I get one?

We have a beautiful coastal walk near us, not NT. The little car park parcel itself is, however, owned by the NT, and it charges £5 for non members. It makes me laugh, because there is no NT house for miles, and who is going to trek up the hill to check the cars for tickets?

JaneJudge

I don’t know any white people that go to church. The avid church goers I know are all black with the exception of quite a few Indian families - and this is a surprise as I wasn’t aware Christianity was even a thing in India but in the South it apparently is

It’s a big thing in India. We get coachloads of Tamils who visit N Norfolk every summer from all over the country to visit the RC Shrine and also have massive beach parties.

nanna8

Virtue signalling ? What good little people they are. Pass the sick bucket ..

Whatever your creed, colour, sexual persuasion, religion, you’re welcome.

The only people it doesn’t “include” are those who would like to visit but simply cannot afford it! So you are excluded if your family are on a low income.

I visited a NT property last month and it cost £5 to park. For that we got to visit their shop and wander around the garden. Entry to the house was about £15 extra and half that for kids. Lots of the rooms are closed off. We were disappointed that you still had to pay £5 to park even though we only wanted to stay about an hour and walk in the garden.

I don’t know any white people that go to church. The avid church goers I know are all black with the exception of quite a few Indian families - and this is a surprise as I wasn’t aware Christianity was even a thing in India but in the South it apparently is

Joseann

Was this it?
Inclusion and Wellbeing calendar.
^Developed with our networks to help recognise,
highlight and celebrate moments which are significant to a wide range of people and
cultures^.

Yes