Electric cars - to buy or not to buy?

Your article is from 2019 stewaris. Did you read the recent Guardian article on page 1 of the thread?

stewaris

Unfortunately Mamie it's not quite as simple as that. For example lithium mining in Salar de Atacama consumes 65% of the regions water. Wherever there are mining operations there is always a trade off on the environmental impact on the region and, consequently, the earth in general. We all pay for our actions in the end. If you're interested there is a very interesting paper from the journal Nature - see here

www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

Regardless of what we do there is always an environmental impact. I'm not advocating we do nothing but we sometimes don't know the consequences of our actions until much further down the line.

What we do know is that there is development ongoing into solid state batteries. We know that EU countries have signed up to ethical production standards. We know that the production of oil consumes minerals throughout the lifetime of a car rather than just in production. Above all, we know that emissions from petrol and diesel cars damage the health of our children and grandchildren.
As I said before, it depends on your priorities.

Unfortunately Mamie it's not quite as simple as that. For example lithium mining in Salar de Atacama consumes 65% of the regions water. Wherever there are mining operations there is always a trade off on the environmental impact on the region and, consequently, the earth in general. We all pay for our actions in the end. If you're interested there is a very interesting paper from the journal Nature - see here

www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

Regardless of what we do there is always an environmental impact. I'm not advocating we do nothing but we sometimes don't know the consequences of our actions until much further down the line.

I’m driving one at the minute feels lighter driving this than my normal vw. But so easy to drive son sorted it for me and they do say it’s the future?

Lithium is now being harvested by trawling the Pacific creating massive damage to the seabed. Suppose if it's out of sight its okay! Lego has analysed the process of using recycled lego items to make new bricks. Surprise, they found more CO2 was created than when producing bricks from new. Don't think we know the half of it when it comes to electric vehicles.

I changed my car last year and after much searching decided an electric car is not for me. The cost was not a deciding factor as I can easily afford one but the fact that several have caught fire when charging or just parked up. Also that these fires are very ferocious and extremely difficult to extinguish. Add that to the fact that one car couldn't be stopped for several miles when it malfunctioned and although going slowly could have easily crashed into another vehicle when going straight through red lights. Also some don't make any noise so pose a danger to pedestrians. Lack of charging points and the rising price of electricity was also a factor.
I chose another second hand Kia as my last car made 12 years old with only £1,500 spent on repairs in all those years (not counting tyres, and servicing) It's reliable, warm and comfortable and run on petrol so I can re-fuel at many places. Yes it could catch fire but hopefully won't burn the house down when parked on a driveway like another electric car I've read about in the press.
I'm convinced these electric cars are unsafe atm and need to be re-assessed and updated a lot before I will consider getting one.

I think a lot of people lease, as we do Mollygo. Here in France the government is encouraging the leasing of smaller electric cars with a grant of 8,000k euros and 95€ a month lease.
As I said up thread ours is a medium sized Peugeot at 320€ a month including tyres and servicing.
I don't think that people who drive petrol cars are uncaring about the environment; it is not for everyone at this stage.
What I do object to is the constant churning out of myths and falsehoods about EVs originating from vested interests and passed on by the lazy thinking and lack of research of some of the media.

Currently, my priorities and those of my children and grandchildren are based on finance. E.g. DG1 who can’t buy a house near her work (second home owners) needs a car to get to work to cut down her travel time (nearly 2hrs each way on public transport or 25minutes in a car). She simply can’t afford an electric car.
DC and spouses, supporting children at school and Uni who need cars to get to work can’t afford to replace their current cars with electric.
I need a car to get to work, and we would look at a hybrid if we were replacing. EV are still out of our reach.
I’m not sure if the demographic embracing electric cars and solar panels is based on age as Wwm2 describes, as much as on finance. Across the road from me, the great-granddad has solar panels and two cars; both big and one electric. The young people next door have a van and a car, both FF.
Parents dropping children off where I teach have a mixture of FF, EV and HV or none. Working on the basis that they’re between twenties to forties, is it fair to say some of them are just uncaring about the environment?

We couldn’t afford one even if we wanted one. Still driving our petrol Peugeot 107 which is 18 years old.

Both my children and many of my friends/relatives are opting for an electric car once they need a replacement. We have a hybrid which is a delight to drive and so economical.

I have noticed that there are so many electric cars on the roads now, and Brighton is gradually supplying charging points to the entire city.

Roofs are sprouting solar panels like mad.

People - in particular the younger demographic as opposed to the older - more set in their ways- are embracing the future with enthusiasm.

My daughter drove me to Devon for a wedding last year. We went in a totally electric car. A journey that should have taken just over 6 hours each way actually took 12+ hours each way. My daughter had steam coming out of her ears both ways.

The problem was mostly caused not being able to find charging machines that worked and didn't have a long queue. I think we do need to go electric but the facilities have to be there for long journeys like ours from Newcastle upon Tyne to South Devon.

stewaris

I think you also factor in the damage to the environment when mining lithium for the batteries. See here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpli_jMQ5lI&ab_channel=BBCNewsAfrica

and here:

www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future.

and here:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/08/cornish-lithium-secures-536m-to-open-first-mine-for-the-metal-in-britain#:~:text=Cornish%20Lithium%20is%20one%20of,the%20end%20of%20the%20decade.

Apologies for some reason I can't seem to hyperlink these.

As we now know (see page 1 of thread) there is far more damage from the mining of minerals once oil is brought into the equation. Batteries can be recycled and once on the road an electric car does not belch noxious fumes into the lungs of our children and grandchildren. I guess it depends on your priorities.

I think you also factor in the damage to the environment when mining lithium for the batteries. See here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpli_jMQ5lI&ab_channel=BBCNewsAfrica

and here:

www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future.

and here:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/08/cornish-lithium-secures-536m-to-open-first-mine-for-the-metal-in-britain#:~:text=Cornish%20Lithium%20is%20one%20of,the%20end%20of%20the%20decade.

Apologies for some reason I can't seem to hyperlink these.

I was in a taxi recently where the owner SO regrets his purchase of electric. Main complaint was the wear and tear on tyres because of the additional battery weight. Also in case of breakdown he has to be uplifted by a vehicle rather than towed. I understand none of this but simply accepted what he said. Certainly put me off the idea of ever buying one.

AngieP

Also more expensive to insure and repair.

They are not more expensive to insure. Check out the UK EV forums. Here in France ours is cheaper to insure than ICE and will go down by 25% next year because they have data (with our agreement) which shows how efficiently and carefully we drive it.
They are certainly not more expensive to repair. They have a fraction of the number of parts in an ICE car. Servicing is incredibly quick and cheap.

Electric cars may not be an option anyway for anyone who can't charge at home unless there is a bank of good chargers nearby. If we hadn't been able to install a charger at home I don't think we would have gone EV.

We've never had a problem charging, but it takes a change of mindset to work out when/where you need to charge before you travel instead of just jumping in the car and waiting till fuel is low then deciding where you want to fill up. You also have to be prepared to possibly detour off your usual route. We've been very surprised at just how many charging points there are now, including at places like Costa and MacDonalds.

Also more expensive to insure and repair.

My youngest has just bought a hybrid car and he loves it saves him money too very quiet and comfortable his is a new to market but he works for a company that makes them Rishi visited them recently lol

I had a new hybrid, never had so much trouble with a car. Was told that I didn't do enough mileage? Went back to petrol after 18 months. I also suspect that the overall carbon footprint of EVs will be high, especially with the relatively short battery life. This will probably be discussed once we have all been forced to ditch petrol.

We had a plug in hybrid for two years then three years ago went fully electric. Would never go back to petrol/diesel out of choice now and feel after five years we do know what we are talking about. We bought the cheapest electric car available at the time which did the range we needed and in the three years we have had one full tyre change at around 25,000 miles
We use off peak electricity to charge at home and have never had to charge away from home which on reflection is pretty much what most couples like us would find. The vast majority of our days journeys are well within the 200 mile per charge range. We have charged at holiday cottages on a couple of occasions and if we decided to go further afield probably would make a considered plan before setting off so yes this would be more of an inconvenience than just pulling into a petrol station but would be so very infrequent as not to be important at all.
Our electric charges and general running costs are very very low but we realise and appreciate this could change in the future when the government need to get more tax from electric car users but that’s one for the future and meanwhile it only costs us about £6 for 200+ miles

lizzypopbottle

While studying chemistry in school, the test for hydrogen was a lighted splint held at the top of a test tube. It went with an audible 'pop' as the hydrogen exploded. The early blimps were filled with hydrogen and exploded spectacularly. That's why they changed to helium, which is inert. I hope the technology associated with hydrogen as a domestic and motor fuel is very advanced.

Yes, the industry my Dh worked in used hydrogen as a test for leaks. It’s because the molecules are smaller and will leak out of the tiniest of holes. Hydrogen also has to be manufactured, which uses electrify in itself. It’s only green if the process uses energy from reusable sources, which isn’t always possible.

My own ICE car is less than three years old. It’s very fuel-efficient compared to cars I’ve had in the past and if I sold it to go electric, someone else would be driving round in it, so I don’t see the point in ditching it. We also travel long distances and until the charging network has improved electric won’t be an option for us.

DH’s 16yr old diesel 4 X 4 was on its last legs a couple of weeks ago, unfortunately it has had a remarkable recovery due to the removal of a minuscule fuse so our planned purchase of a hybrid is delayed.

My car is only 3 years old, it’s petrol with an eco engine, as I absolutely love it, it’s not going to be replaced anytime soon.

We have a ten year old diesel car which we bought new At the time we bought it diesel cars were considered better for the environment than petrol hence our purchase.
I have read that the best way to reduce impact on the environment is to continue to use a diesel car until it’s no longer repairable and then replace it with a second hand petrol car. So that is what we’re doing

cc

kittylester

And electric cars are often heavier than 'ordinary' cars so cause more damage to the roads.

Interestingly the it is the tyres on EVs that cause more pollution than those on ordinary cars, as they are heavier the tyres break down.

Even more interestingly, if you actually read the thread, you will see that the RAC and Kwikfit disagree with you. 😂😂😂

While studying chemistry in school, the test for hydrogen was a lighted splint held at the top of a test tube. It went with an audible 'pop' as the hydrogen exploded. The early blimps were filled with hydrogen and exploded spectacularly. That's why they changed to helium, which is inert. I hope the technology associated with hydrogen as a domestic and motor fuel is very advanced.