Care home workers poor English

honesty

Many years ago when my late dh was in hospital fit a while, he asked me to take some oxon cubes I'm so he could have a different taste to drink( he liked them made into a drink like bovril) on the evening shift when the staff came round with the last drinks of the night, he passed an oxon cube to one of the staff and asked for it to be put into hot water for a drink. The staff came back with his cup with hot water and the oxon cube, still in its foil wrapper sitting at the bottom of his cup in the hot water!

Oxo ! Typo

Germanshepherdsmum

With so many care homes privately owned, what is the remuneration of the employees to do with the government so long as it is at least the minimum wage?

Local Authorities pay for placements, and due to their dire financial straits the fees they will pay are capped at a subsistence level. Relatives of LA funded residents can’t always pay top ups, and not enough private payers are available to pay a higher rate, so many care homes make little or no profit. As well as their inability to pay higher wages to staff, that’s why so many have gone to the wall in recent years. So ultimately it has everything to do with the government.

I don’t buy that Casdon. If local authorities paid more for placements there’s no guarantee that staff would be paid more.

I didn’t just give you my personal theory Germanshepherdsmum, it was evidence based,
www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2022/08/how-social-care-struggles-compete-supermarkets-pay

Surely there are limitations to privatisation, the commodification of human suffering being one of them?

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

pinkquartz

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

But how? Where are all these tens of thousands of people who will do the job, even if it's better paid? Either they're sitting around with their appropriate qualifications, experience and personal qualities just waiting for an opportunity (which I don't believe) or they'll leave another job, which will create another vacancy. It's flawed logic.

pinkquartz

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

It's not true that workers in "the office" with adequate standards of written English can cover for workers in the field.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t buy that Casdon. If local authorities paid more for placements there’s no guarantee that staff would be paid more.

Or that vacancies would be filled.

AsI have said I spent 40 years visiting friends and family in care homes and saw everything from the best to the worst care.

My overall experience is that you get what you pay for. If you are self funding and can afford to pay to stay in a medium to high price home, then, overall, there are exceptions, you can expect really good care and more British born staff. Apart from anything else you will not be paying to subsidise LA placed residents, as the LA wil not be using the Care Home as it is too expensive.

If you are dependent on a state funded place then you are stuffed. Poorer quality accommodation and a very high proportion of non-English paying stuff. Again, there will be exceptions, but they are few.

pinkquartz

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

It's not just about money, many services insist on 12-14 hour shifts which rules out many for various reasons. Many insist on a mixture of day/night shifts, again ruling out many. Some of the reasons many don't want these hours is they can't cover childcare, it puts too much strain on relationships, it's knackering.
Shifts are set with little notice and change ad hoc - it's impossible to plan your life.
Ongoing training is often unpaid (legal or not).
Domiciliary care often pays a pittance for using own car. Time travelling can be unpaid (legal or not)
Due to staff shortages you are cajoled/ blackmailed into taking on extra hours.
If a carer has insufficient English how can they understand oral/written requests and pass on/record information. How can they read/understand handover notes and make their own? I don't understand how they can possibly pass basic mandatory training let alone further mandatory training.

Care homes only insist on long shifts because they know they can do it and get the staff they want.

If it was change shift patterns or manage without staff they would soon change.

Care workers are mostly ununionised and foreign workers are unlikely to want to be unionised in case it damaged their work situation over here. Higher unionisation in this sector would see working conditions and pay.

It is true about the offices with `English speakers.......how do i know Lived experience.

also there used to be many many more English carers who stopped when working condition grew worse and pay too little.
again how do I know? Lived experience. Not flawed logic !

Sorry if you think foreign workers need to pss English tests.
It happens that many foreign workers are helped to pass
agencies even go to othercountries to recruit.
Also these workes are often misled/lied to and end up trapped here doing a job they hate in a country the don't like. And not appreciated by elderly people who need carers that understand their english culture.

Anyone with a Gran that prefers fried bread and stewed black tea to our English tea and toast?
Please imagine being older and frail and the only person you see cannot share your language. Its a lonely life for both carer and service user.

growstuff

pinkquartz

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

It's not true that workers in "the office" with adequate standards of written English can cover for workers in the field.

Actually it is true.

your claim simply isn't true.

The lady who died after being trapped in the stairlift was left in the sole charge of two carers whose English was woefully inadequate. There was nobody ‘in the office’ who could translate.

It's appalling the training is sometimes so bad . I was in a council run care home in Derby where the "support workers" were meticulously trained in patient safety to avoid falls, and were all completely able to administer medications. I met a great many support workers while I was there, and every one was faultless about falls prevention and medications. One of the carers was African and bilingual French and English and she was a lot of fun to talk to. It's not all bad news.

It stands to reason that low paid foreign workers are unlikely to have very good English, unless they come from an English speaking country, e.g. several in the Caribbean, but then accents (their own, and those of residents with marked regional ones) may very likely cause problems.,

A Swedish friend’s son, who had excellent English after spending a year in the US as a teen, still had trouble after starting work on London, with regional accents.

His mother, who’d lived in the U.K. for many years, told him to watch Coronation St and EastEnders!

Pink Quartz, from your personal experience would you agree the quality of training is even more important than use of English and knowledge of local culture?

From my own experience with FE students and as a nurse, one of the most important parts of training is the trainee's basic attitude to work. I have found trainee health and care workers to be very motivated which is such a good start to managing to learn the culture. All workers need to know they are respected including when the client is old and deaf or in pain. To know you are respected you need to know you are receiving a fair wage. Which is not the case.

pinkquartz

growstuff

pinkquartz

It would be best to pay care workers a decent wage and then you will get British workers filling the jobs.

When a foreign worker has no English there will be workers in the office who are the same nationality and can cover the written notes needed.

OK so tea and toast you think is basic........ it may well be given to elderly service users in the shape of fried bread and stewed milkless tea.

It's not true that workers in "the office" with adequate standards of written English can cover for workers in the field.

Actually it is true.

your claim simply isn't true.

How do you work that one out?

If workers actually caring for patients can't a) understand what is being said to them/make themselves understood in hundreds of daily interactions b) don't have the standards of written English to report any observations, how is a third party able to cover for that?

Caleo

Pink Quartz, from your personal experience would you agree the quality of training is even more important than use of English and knowledge of local culture?

From my own experience with FE students and as a nurse, one of the most important parts of training is the trainee's basic attitude to work. I have found trainee health and care workers to be very motivated which is such a good start to managing to learn the culture. All workers need to know they are respected including when the client is old and deaf or in pain. To know you are respected you need to know you are receiving a fair wage. Which is not the case.

I think training is top priority.

People want to feel confident about what they do. I don't believe that foreign workers enjoy not being able to communicate.

Then the language will follow. I think most foreign workers are exploited and that creates more issues and resentments.

I don’t think it’s so much the English language, but more the colloquialisms. Nurses, especially from the state of Kerala , where literacy is 94%, will have no trouble with the written word and will produce word-perfect Medical Reports etc. Yes, initially there will be some communication problems - accent, terminology etc. That can be easily overcome with a Crash Course, before they take up the jobs.

crazyH

I don’t think it’s so much the English language, but more the colloquialisms. Nurses, especially from the state of Kerala , where literacy is 94%, will have no trouble with the written word and will produce word-perfect Medical Reports etc. Yes, initially there will be some communication problems - accent, terminology etc. That can be easily overcome with a Crash Course, before they take up the jobs.

How many private care home providers are prepared to invest in English language courses? In fact, how much are any of them prepared to invest in any kind of in-service training (apart from the absolute statutory minimum)?