What will save the Tory party?

Katie59

Democratic just like Israel, more likely an unholy alliance, PR is not a panacea, if there is no majority the extremists exact their price.

No Katie, democratic "just like" a country where everyone's vote has equal value.

How that vote helps construct a government is down to the voter, not all of whom care, or are knowledgeable in this area. I don't think a voting system can ever change that, although education (Citizen's Juries, etc.) may.

I can honestly think of nothing to save this government from being voted out at the polls. Nothing.

Katie59

Democratic just like Israel, more likely an unholy alliance, PR is not a panacea, if there is no majority the extremists exact their price.

Israel is somewhat exceptional because there are reserved seats in the Knesset for the orthodox religious parties. Proportional representation is quite common across Europe. People feel their voice is heard but I'm not sure government is any better than what we now have. It depends on the quality of the politicians and the UK has had some pretty poor ones in recent years.

Siope

Katie59 That article, based on a letter written by Lord Hammond is quite old, I think. It’s also very one-sided and thus inaccurate. The London School of Economics analysed his claims:

The detailed calculations by the Committee on Climate Change informed the decision by Theresa May’s Government to introduce an amendment to the 2008 Climate Change Act to change the target for emissions reductions in 2050 from 80 per cent to 100 per cent. This amendment was passed by Parliament in June 2019.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) examined the Committee’s estimates in its July 2021 Fiscal risks report. It concluded: “In the balanced pathway, the CCC estimates the total net cost of abatement across all sectors of the economy between 2020 to 2050 at £321 billion – with £1,312 billion of investment costs mostly offset by £991 billion of net operating savings.”

It also noted: “From 2040 onwards, net operating savings are projected to outweigh investment costs. And by 2050, the CCC projects a £19 billion annual saving relative to its baseline emissions scenario.” If similar savings of the same size continued in the years beyond 2050, investment costs would be completely offset by 2070.”

It is 2019 and the existing Net Zero is based on it, we now know Sunak has decided to row back on the progress. Personally I had no idea how much it was costing I was surprised at the £50bn/yr

Back to the title = NOTHING can.

The clowns took over the Tory show years ago
Moderate Conservatives are worried the party could fall into the hands of extremists: where have they been since 2016?

That’s a headline and sub-head from the reasonably right-wing journalist Hugo Rifkind in today’s Times

The rest of the article (you can skip the paywall) goes a long way to explaining what has gone wrong with the Tories.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-clowns-took-over-the-tory-show-years-ago-kt8gstdjk

Purplepixie

This government is the worst ever. Such liars and so corrupt. Labour had better win the next election or we will all be out on the street and eating cake - before the guilotine!

I don't think it's just the government Purplepixie. Some/many of their supporters seem only to follow those saying what they want to hear so become addicted to lazy reporting.

Katie59 That article, based on a letter written by Lord Hammond is quite old, I think. It’s also very one-sided and thus inaccurate. The London School of Economics analysed his claims:

The detailed calculations by the Committee on Climate Change informed the decision by Theresa May’s Government to introduce an amendment to the 2008 Climate Change Act to change the target for emissions reductions in 2050 from 80 per cent to 100 per cent. This amendment was passed by Parliament in June 2019.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) examined the Committee’s estimates in its July 2021 Fiscal risks report. It concluded: “In the balanced pathway, the CCC estimates the total net cost of abatement across all sectors of the economy between 2020 to 2050 at £321 billion – with £1,312 billion of investment costs mostly offset by £991 billion of net operating savings.”

It also noted: “From 2040 onwards, net operating savings are projected to outweigh investment costs. And by 2050, the CCC projects a £19 billion annual saving relative to its baseline emissions scenario.” If similar savings of the same size continued in the years beyond 2050, investment costs would be completely offset by 2070.”

Well, you either spend the money on trying to keep the temperature rise under some sort of control, or you spend it on, for example, rehousing those living on flood plains or beside unstoppable wildfires. Not to mention coping with unstoppable migration from countries devastated by drought or sea level rise. Which would you prefer, Katie59?

It would be interesting to see how those figures have been arrived at, Katie59.

Katie59 I wonder at what point the world will begin to see the benefits? Maybe around 2040?

Published in the FT

The Committee on Climate Change estimate that reaching net zero emissions by 2050 will cost c. £50 billion per annum by 2050. BEIS’s [the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy’s] own analysis find the costs to be 40% higher, at around £70bn per annum, but still within the annual cost envelope of 1–2% of GDP estimated by the Committee. On the basis of these estimates, the total cost of transitioning to a zero-carbon economy is likely to be well in excess of a trillion pounds.”

Just so everyone knows how much is being spent on “Climate Change” the OBR are expecting it to be over £50bn PER YEAR. That is £1000 for every man woman and child in the UK each year at 2019 prices. So lots of sacrifices are needed.

It never bodes well for a party to remain in office for too long. They become stale and in the case of the Tories seemingly prone to corruption.

This government is the worst ever. Such liars and so corrupt. Labour had better win the next election or we will all be out on the street and eating cake - before the guilotine!

Bella23

I agree Kittylester, whoever is in power after the next election still needs a strong opposition.
If Labour wins will the Tories provide a strong opposition join forces and forget all their in fighting?
If Labour are in power will they finally give some ideas of what their plans for the country are? Instead of waiting to see what the Tories say then say they do not agree but never clearly say what their plans would be.

If Labour are in power will they finally give some ideas of what their plans for the country are? Bella23

There is plenty of information about how Labour is thinking. Full policies for an first term will be will be in the Manifesto. Any the Tories can manage to agree on will be in theirs. Both will be issued just before an election, as is the case in every election.

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=labour+social+-+labour+vision

Oh yes, we owe it to our grandchildren. Can't you see that???

And if we invest in insulation and more modern, innovative technology, there is no need to do with 'less', but more clever and better.

Nice to hear that you both would happily accept less for more green policies.

Fleurpepper

well, they would not cost the Earth!

but they might save it...

Katie59 There is no choice - it's do or die.

well, they would not cost the Earth!

Do be aware too many “Green” policies cost a lot to implement, which is fine if “ someone else” is paying, the coalitions we have had in the UK have not been marriages made in heaven.

Btw, I’d be VERY supportive with a well thought out and progressive coalition of Lab/LibDem/Green, no reason at all to think it wouldn’t work.

The days of our two party system has had its day and we need radical positive change.

Varian

I couldn’t agree more.

To all those stating Labour “should declare their policies” they have an outline “pre-manifesto” as do most of the other opposition parties, not one of them will “declare their policies” until such time as our GE date is announced, this is pretty normal! As for those who keep on saying why have Labour done anything? What pray should they actually do? They are not in power, any opposition’s role is to hold the current govt and its cabinet to account, I think it’s fair to say Starmer and his crew have done this to date.

Let’s wait and see what all the manifesto’s outline before we jump on them.

Yes Fleurpepper..government working co-operatively together for the good of all people..what a wonderful thought..

Oreo

And the last thing the UK need in my view is a mixed ragbag of Labour Lib Dems Greens SNP running the country.
Hoping for a big majority for Labour, then they can govern on their own.

Well, I think it is time to put see-saw politics and finally think more cooperatively and joined up, thinking and working. Instead of a strong opposition, Greens and Lib Dems could hold back the extreme factions of the LP. Most democratic countries have to work cooperatively with other parties. Swinging extreme to extreme see-saw is NOT the way anymore.

Whitewave, totally agree. Many will expect Labour to provide miracles and they just will not be able to do what they want and know is right- because the Tories have bankrupted the country, in a way not even Corbyn could have done. What did Cameron say at the time- Vote for me or....?!!