Migration comparison

I'm sure a Rwandan airline would be happy to do the job. But I suspect that stage will never be reached. The whole Rwanda thing is a massive distraction from this Tory government's appalling failings over the past decade and lacks any moral justification.

MaizieD

To revert to migration.

I saw on X/twitter earlier that apparently no plane operators are willing to sign a contract with the government for flights to Rwanda, and the RAF are refusing to carry them out. It seems to have been reported in the Times...

If anyone subscribes to the Times it's here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/latest-setback-to-the-tory-rwanda-plan-there-are-no-planes-cxpwnkpfc

If true, this is something of a problem for Sunak...

It's quite troubling that the RAF have been put in this position. I don't want them to carry these poor people but I am concerned that one of our services his had to take a stand against a government.

In a government that seems to think playing politics is governing - it really isn't - we are cursed with the truth that Mr Sunak is not even very good at politics which gives us problems like this one.

Because Brexit pulled in voters who wouldn't normally vote for them they are trying to pull the same trick using the prejudices the Rwanda project appeals to. This in spite of the fact that many voting Conservative in the last election have seen the promises made to them fade into the land of make-believe.

As the Economist commented this weekend, we should not be prepared to see this man as competent simply because he did not blow up the financial markets within a month. We should not see him as a good leader when, with a large majority, he does not lose a vote in the early stages of legislation. This is not a reason to see it as a triumph of Tory Party management. It is not normal for a British government to suspended human-rights legislation or for Parliament to be in constant opposition opposition to the judiciary.

At one time the generality of Conservatives would have stood against these things. Now, the lack of backbone amongst these people has forced others to take a stand. Just how long do we have to suffer these people.

DaisyAnneReturns

Callistemon21

Oh do please give it a rest, DaidyAnneReturns and stop insulting other posters.

What on earth did I say that was insulting? Grow up Callistemon. That was a simple general statement of fact.

QED

MaizieD

To revert to migration.

I saw on X/twitter earlier that apparently no plane operators are willing to sign a contract with the government for flights to Rwanda, and the RAF are refusing to carry them out. It seems to have been reported in the Times...

If anyone subscribes to the Times it's here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/latest-setback-to-the-tory-rwanda-plan-there-are-no-planes-cxpwnkpfc

If true, this is something of a problem for Sunak...

Oh dear.

A boat?

MaizieD

To revert to migration.

I saw on X/twitter earlier that apparently no plane operators are willing to sign a contract with the government for flights to Rwanda, and the RAF are refusing to carry them out. It seems to have been reported in the Times...

If anyone subscribes to the Times it's here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/latest-setback-to-the-tory-rwanda-plan-there-are-no-planes-cxpwnkpfc

If true, this is something of a problem for Sunak...

At least he's been feeling in good company with the far-right Giorgia Meloni Maizie. He really did seem happy to see her.

So now you are apologising for my behavior. You really do find it so difficult to apologise for what you did, don't you Cossy.

I do understand that apologies are always best made quickly and become more difficult the more you try to distort the truth. However, the fault was yours. Not mine for, as you suggest, "feeling" the comments were personal to me. They were personal to me because of the way you structured your post. I understand that you may not have intended that but you have made it so much worse. I quick apology and explanation at the beginning and we wouldn't still be discussing this.

To revert to migration.

I saw on X/twitter earlier that apparently no plane operators are willing to sign a contract with the government for flights to Rwanda, and the RAF are refusing to carry them out. It seems to have been reported in the Times...

If anyone subscribes to the Times it's here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/latest-setback-to-the-tory-rwanda-plan-there-are-no-planes-cxpwnkpfc

If true, this is something of a problem for Sunak...

I know of several retirement villages. The first one in the country, ewas Hartrigg Oaks, in York, built by the Joseph Rowntree Trust over 20 years ago. I have a friend who lives there.

It incorporates a care home, but as it is situated in a village with shops and other services, doesn't have a shop, but it incorporates a care home and a very active village community.

Locally to us, in a country village there is a large - and expensive retirement village built about 10 years ago. It has a shop that acts as the village shop, a care home, gym and lots of facilities open to the wider community. It runs a regular minibus service to the local town.

There are a number of similar developments all around the country and several retirement home companies, like Audley, specialise in building retirement villages.

Retirement Villages

Locally our Council has just granted permission for a “retirement village” to be built on some old industrial land, quite near to some lovely green fields.

Comprising several small houses, apartments and a few bungalows, permission also covers a large medical centre, which also includes a 10 bed convalescent unit to help prevent “bed blocking” should any residents have to be admitted to hospitals.

There will be communal shared spaces and parking and of course visitors, friends and family are allowed to come and stay.

Not too sure if all will be sold or if renting is an option. I would imagine service charges would be quite high. Very early stages.

Over 55’s only.

I think it seems a great idea, has anyone here come across one local to them (I’m aware of them in parts of Europe, where entertainment and shops are also incorporated, as well as the aforementioned). What are your thoughts? Ideal for us or a nightmare?

DAR

At worst, I shouldn’t have put my following statements on the post I was using to respond to you.

I’ve already explained the other comments were meant generally, and not personal to you, I am sorry if you feel they were.

As far as I am concerned this should now bring this to a close, but, of course, it is your right to continue to argue, as it is to report. Do whatever you feel works for for me.

Moving forward, I will be more careful to post comments separately so no one need feel offended or upset.

Getting back to the original post, all this migration talk is simply the Tories offering a distraction from all their failures over the past 13 years. Hopefully the voters will ignore it and vote on the real issues - cost of living, NHS waiting lists, lack of social housing, etc.

where were

Cossy

DAR firstly, I was responding to something you posted, the remainder of the post certainly wasn’t directed at you.

Am I one of the “influx” of “newbies” of whom you seem to disapprove?

I won’t apologise, as I haven’t actually don’t anything wrong, and I certainly won’t be ever responding or commenting on any more of your posts.

So where "Cosy", did you make it clear, that part of the post - the part where you found egregious fault in my thinking - was directed at anyone other than me?

If you said those things about me, as it appeared you where, you owe me an apology.

I your post didn't, as you suggest it didn't, make it clear to all they were not about me then you owe us all an apology.

Or are one of those prople who can never apologise for their mistakes?

DAR firstly, I was responding to something you posted, the remainder of the post certainly wasn’t directed at you.

Am I one of the “influx” of “newbies” of whom you seem to disapprove?

I won’t apologise, as I haven’t actually don’t anything wrong, and I certainly won’t be ever responding or commenting on any more of your posts.

know you know what you

Katie59

DaisyAnneReturns

What did I say that was a prediction Katie?

If you don’t believe it why write it

Don't believe what Katie? You are not making sense so I don't know you are refering to. I didn’t make a "prediction" so what particular part if my post do you want to discuss?

I found this article setting out what happens when you claim asylum in UK.

It is well written and gives all
The information the Asylum
Seeker needs to know. Are all these conditions met or do
The promised fall by the wayside? I thought many of you might like to read them

www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

DaisyAnneReturns

What did I say that was a prediction Katie?

If you don’t believe it why write it

What did I say that was a prediction Katie?

DaisyAnneReturns

"We’ve already got that DaisyAnne, there just aren’t enough staff to meet the needs of the number of people that need their input."

I know. The recklessness that has got us into this position is mind boggling. But a new government has to grit its teeth and start. They cannot fear failure. It becomes a self-fulfilling proficy. They may have to pour people into select small areas to start with. As areas start to work people will want to work in these job, and the overall cost of the various forms of care will start to cost the NHS less.

The first step will always be the most difficult.

That’s a very optimistic prediction,

"We’ve already got that DaisyAnne, there just aren’t enough staff to meet the needs of the number of people that need their input."

I know. The recklessness that has got us into this position is mind boggling. But a new government has to grit its teeth and start. They cannot fear failure. It becomes a self-fulfilling proficy. They may have to pour people into select small areas to start with. As areas start to work people will want to work in these job, and the overall cost of the various forms of care will start to cost the NHS less.

The first step will always be the most difficult.

I know of many cases where home care is totally inadequate and the only choice was to pay a local carer in some cases 2 with family covering nights. When mum couldn’t manage I asked around and found a lady easily, brother an I did the rest.

We’ve already got that DaisyAnne, there just aren’t enough staff to meet the needs of the number of people that need their input. They just. keep repackaging the same scheme to sell it. This is an area I know a lot about, having worked very closely with community hospitals and services, so you’ll forgive me for my cynicism.
I think what you are suggesting really Callistemon is that the time people can remain in community or rehabilitation beds needs to be increased, because separate units for convalescence should not be needed once they leave hospital, they would just be holding beds. However once ready for discharge people really need to return to their own homes with support, or to a homely atmosphere in a care home, not be stuck in a hospital bed, which actually disables them further by the nature of the care they receive.

Casdon

I don’t think convalescent homes would meet the need. Nearly all patients currently await care packages in community hospitals or rehabilitation beds in acute hospitals, so by the time they are ready for discharge they have already been in hospital for a number of weeks. Convalescent care is temporary care that provides extra support if you're recovering from an operation or illness. The patients who are awaiting care homes or home care packages are not going to be able to return to unsupported care, they need further rehabilitation in a limited number of cases, but the majority need a package of care or a placement, not what amounts to a holding bay of beds.

There has been a lot of talk recently Casdon about having highly skilled teams covering smaller areas. The idea is that they do all the can, putting in intense provision of skilled help to keep people at home and to get them home from hospital. This does mean a lot of money up front but the overall cost is a lot less.

The idea of virtual care - obviously not possible in all cases -seems to make it possible to give constant care for less too. This would leave hospital beds and staff for those most in need of contant direct care.

Casdon

I don’t think convalescent homes would meet the need. Nearly all patients currently await care packages in community hospitals or rehabilitation beds in acute hospitals, so by the time they are ready for discharge they have already been in hospital for a number of weeks. Convalescent care is temporary care that provides extra support if you're recovering from an operation or illness. The patients who are awaiting care homes or home care packages are not going to be able to return to unsupported care, they need further rehabilitation in a limited number of cases, but the majority need a package of care or a placement, not what amounts to a holding bay of beds.

Yes, but it would give that extra few weeks respite and recovery when care packages could be set up or places found in care homes.

It used to work well and, in some rare cases, is still available and does work well.