6 Day Doctors Strike

ronib

You can shout as much as you like.
A PA will never have the earnings of fully trained consultants unless they retrain.
For the medical profession to be so money motivated is a dark day for the Uk.

Are you being deliberately dense, ronib.

Goodness knows if you ever had a job, but if you did and you had to have certain qualifications for doing it, how pleased would you have been if people less qualified than you were paid more than you for doing the same job?

Still ignoring my question, ronib.

The BMA is a union, just like other unions. I support what they are doing. I support any union which is fighting to get a good deal for its members. The 'man in the street' has nothing else to stand up for him/her, as we can see from the Post Office Scandal which is being discussed elsewhere.

There is a strange double standard in existence where people will bemoan the helplessness of individuals in the face of 'power', but demonise any co-operative attempts to present a united front of the 'helpless' to 'power'.

You can shout as much as you like.
A PA will never have the earnings of fully trained consultants unless they retrain.
For the medical profession to be so money motivated is a dark day for the Uk.

Maizie D the BMA is a political body and the public has had enough of them ! Young very entitled leader heading up BM A and this course of action is counterproductive.

ronib

Also some assumptions are being made that the PA I saw wasn’t under qualified. I think 4 years degree to masters level plus 2 years specialised training. He wasn’t just newly out of medical school either and knew his stuff. PAs have the option of converting to full medical status I believe.

WHY IS THIS PERSON, WITH LESS TRAINING AND QUALIFICATIONS, BEING PAID MORE THAN A FULLY QUALIFIED DOCTOR?

I am shouting because this point is being completely ignored...

Freya5

The strikes won't work . They've been offered a reasonable amount, they along with the BMA have made this political, to bring shown an elected Gov. Well their chance to re elect another one will be along soon. If Labour get in I doubt wether they will acceded to 35% demands either. The public have had enough.

What, exactly, have the public 'had enough' of, Freya?

'The public' voted for the governments which have savagely cut public spending ever since 2010, resulting in crumbling services and loss of qualified staff. Having voted for this I can't see why they should be in any way aggrieved about the consequences...

Also some assumptions are being made that the PA I saw wasn’t under qualified. I think 4 years degree to masters level plus 2 years specialised training. He wasn’t just newly out of medical school either and knew his stuff. PAs have the option of converting to full medical status I believe.

My mother was given penicillin by a newly qualified junior doctor despite all her hospital notes marked with allergic to penicillin. Fortunately she just had a rash all over and not anaphylaxis. The consultant I spoke to said he had told the junior doctor off and after their chat that junior doctor would never ever make that mistake again. He also said August is a bad time to be in hospital as that's when they take on newly qualified doctors.
They need constant supervision and don't deserve more than £14 an hour imo.

GSM and MaizieD I was told to attend a&e by receptionist at my surgery.
There were no nurses available that day. I did ask about using a pharmacy but told very firmly not to. Yes I was surprised but as I wasn’t able to say that I didn’t have any foreign objects in my eye, I needed an examination!
It’s a painful condition.

Chocolatelovinggran

Freya, you may think as you wish, but the present government espouses a market economy. In a market economy people are paid an appropriate amount and given good conditions of work to attract and retain staff. Are you ok with more and more doctors leaving to places with better pay and conditions? Who will you and I see, then, when we are sick? There's already a significant shortage of GPs and hospital doctors.

Thank goodness there are many Dr's who are still working and giving support to the sick. Not all agree with strike action.
I think a newly qualified Dr, still an apprentice really, a little clinical experience, as a Nurse having to teach them how to cannulate!! Starting at nearly 33,000 a year is not bad. I would think I've had much more insight in working with Dr's of all grades, and by the way they are not known as junior Dr's nowadays, F1 F2 etc. Registrars have always been Registrars, etc. 47,000+ to 52000 +. 8% above the National average.

The strikes won't work . They've been offered a reasonable amount, they along with the BMA have made this political, to bring shown an elected Gov. Well their chance to re elect another one will be along soon. If Labour get in I doubt wether they will acceded to 35% demands either. The public have had enough.

Aveline

Being seen by that PA reduced the wait for Ronib and she received appropriate treatment. Seems like a reasonable use of time and NHS money.

So overpaying a not very highly qualified 'doctor substitute' is a 'reasonable use of ... NHS money', whereas paying actual doctors the wage they deserve is creating a 'black hole'in the economy?

Am I missing something here?

My first port of call for conjunctivitis would be the chemist, certainly not A&E - it’s neither an accident nor an emergency. There’s always a rota of out of hours chemists.

I find with minor eye problems our optician is a much better option or our local chemist not Accident and Emergency

Being seen by that PA reduced the wait for Ronib and she received appropriate treatment. Seems like a reasonable use of time and NHS money.

ronib

I was treated by a PA in local a&e for conjunctivitis. He was efficient, kind and had very good people skills.

I would suspect that a nurse could have treated you for conjunctivitis, too. So why an overpaid half trained 'medic'?

I have no doubt that they are lovely people but that's irrelevant, isn't it?

Doesn't look like there is a 'haemorrhage' of doctors actually leaving the UK. I was looking at the stats and they're pretty level

I was treated by a PA in local a&e for conjunctivitis. He was efficient, kind and had very good people skills.

There is a haemorrhage of trained doctors leaving the UK. They are being replaced by some doctors from abroad and these Physician Associates.

I was interested to see this. Maybe not such a rush abroad by doctors.

maddyone

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Yes you’re right Primrose.
A Physician Associate is certainly not a doctor! The introduction of these not even half trained people is a move by the government to;
1) undermine the doctors strike
2) introduce people into the NHS who are not qualified doctors, but will be in charge of much of your care
3) cut costs
4) solve the doctor shortage

Be afraid! If this really takes off, you will find it difficult to ever see a doctor, instead you will see a far less qualified person

The most insulting part of the introduction of PAs is the fact that they are paid more than the doctors

Govt. can find money for strike breaking but not for properly paying our skilled doctors. Govt is contemptible.

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Yes you’re right Primrose.
A Physician Associate is certainly not a doctor! The introduction of these not even half trained people is a move by the government to;
1) undermine the doctors strike
2) introduce people into the NHS who are not qualified doctors, but will be in charge of much of your care
3) cut costs
4) solve the doctor shortage

Be afraid! If this really takes off, you will find it difficult to ever see a doctor, instead you will see a far less qualified person

Aveline

Scottish pay settlement to Drs has left us with a billion and a half black hole in our economy. Knock on negative effect for everyone.

That will be a billion and a half of money that will be spent into the economy, stimulating economic activity in other sectors before much of it will be returned to government by way of taxation on all the economic activity it has contributed to.

If you are going to comment on an economic decisions it's as well to understand how money flows in an economy (though, I must say that politicians should make an effort to understand this, too). Money doesn't just disappear down a big black hole. It is spent and circulated.

The only time it does go down a 'black hole' is when it goes to the already wealthy who don't really need it, so just stash it away... I don't think that many doctors have that sort of wealth.

What deal did the doctors in Scotland end up with that they accepted Aveline? Curious.

Scottish pay settlement to Drs has left us with a billion and a half black hole in our economy. Knock on negative effect for everyone.