6 Day Doctors Strike

No, the current Gov has offered pay in line with the independent pay review body. BMA won't talk.
First year junior Dr now 32,300, how much should a new qualified Dr earn, no experience, and still having to be taught by colleagues.
The amount they are asking for is absolutely ridiculous.

Errmm ... "newly qualified doctors " do have some clinical experience.

Freya, you may think as you wish, but the present government espouses a market economy. In a market economy people are paid an appropriate amount and given good conditions of work to attract and retain staff. Are you ok with more and more doctors leaving to places with better pay and conditions? Who will you and I see, then, when we are sick? There's already a significant shortage of GPs and hospital doctors.

Pointless to discuss this, really. We've been over and over it before. 'Junior' doctors are not newly qualified or still in training. The term covers doctors at every level below that of Consultant.
All the doctors are asking is for their pay level to be restored to the level they were earning before Osborne got going with his unnecessary 'austerity' programme more than a decade ago. The government is refusing to restore those levels because it is still strongly opposed to spending on public services. It's a face-off between the two.
I'm on the side of the doctors, though I appreciate that it's not causing me or my family any pain or inconvenience, so it's easy to say. All the public employees who have been disgracefully underpaid since 2010 deserve better pay and I would support any of them if on strike.

Meanwhile in Scotland the SG and the Unions have agreed a settlement and there will be no strikes.

Does anyone know what level doctors are who follow a consultant doing ward rounds? As part of the entourage? Are they still students who are yet to complete the five year program?

ronib

Does anyone know what level doctors are who follow a consultant doing ward rounds? As part of the entourage? Are they still students who are yet to complete the five year program?

My only recent experience was a year ago. No, the doctors who followed consultants around weren't in their initial five years. They were specialty registrars, who were often responsible for follow-up appointments, but knew my history.

It is time that the label junior doctors was abolished. I don't know why doctors put up with people thinking that a junior doctor must be inexperienced or fresh out of medical school. The term is disrespectful.
Just for comparison I Googled this.
How much does a newly qualified optician earn?
Salary: Competitive annual salary £45,000 + a generous performance bonus. Working hours: Full Time or Part Time. Full or part time hours.

I agree about the label “Junior doctors”. It’s outdated and causes a whole load of misunderstanding, as evidenced on this thread.

ronib

Does anyone know what level doctors are who follow a consultant doing ward rounds? As part of the entourage? Are they still students who are yet to complete the five year program?

No, they are the consultant team. There would normally be a newly qualified doctor, a doctor with 2+ years of post qualification experience, and a senior doctor who is training for final exams before becoming a consultant. They don’t just follow the consultant around, they are there because they are caring for the patients clinical needs on a day to day basis, requesting tests and interpreting results as needed and they work together to piece together the full picture on the patient’s care. Students on clinical attachment are sometimes there as well, but they aren’t the team.

Casdon thanks for this.

A barrister who is not a KC is known as a junior, no matter how many years they have been at the Bar. No different to the terminology used for doctors who are not consultants.

Time to change the title. I have had every sympathy for he junior doctors strike however ............. My patience is now wearing very thin indeed!!!

So - Elderly advised to stay warm in cold weather".
Excellent advice.

I would add to that, if you are hungry, eat something and, if you are thirsty, it's advisable to drink something water based.

Thank heavens for the Health Experts who give such guidance.
Where would we be without them?

I have been waiting for a hospital appointment since June 2021. It has been cancelled 3 times already and since I am supposed to attend this weekend (special clinic to clear the backlog) it looks like this will be cancelled too.

Fed up with these doctors now.

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Scottish pay settlement to Drs has left us with a billion and a half black hole in our economy. Knock on negative effect for everyone.

What deal did the doctors in Scotland end up with that they accepted Aveline? Curious.

Aveline

Scottish pay settlement to Drs has left us with a billion and a half black hole in our economy. Knock on negative effect for everyone.

That will be a billion and a half of money that will be spent into the economy, stimulating economic activity in other sectors before much of it will be returned to government by way of taxation on all the economic activity it has contributed to.

If you are going to comment on an economic decisions it's as well to understand how money flows in an economy (though, I must say that politicians should make an effort to understand this, too). Money doesn't just disappear down a big black hole. It is spent and circulated.

The only time it does go down a 'black hole' is when it goes to the already wealthy who don't really need it, so just stash it away... I don't think that many doctors have that sort of wealth.

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Yes you’re right Primrose.
A Physician Associate is certainly not a doctor! The introduction of these not even half trained people is a move by the government to;
1) undermine the doctors strike
2) introduce people into the NHS who are not qualified doctors, but will be in charge of much of your care
3) cut costs
4) solve the doctor shortage

Be afraid! If this really takes off, you will find it difficult to ever see a doctor, instead you will see a far less qualified person

maddyone

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Yes you’re right Primrose.
A Physician Associate is certainly not a doctor! The introduction of these not even half trained people is a move by the government to;
1) undermine the doctors strike
2) introduce people into the NHS who are not qualified doctors, but will be in charge of much of your care
3) cut costs
4) solve the doctor shortage

Be afraid! If this really takes off, you will find it difficult to ever see a doctor, instead you will see a far less qualified person

The most insulting part of the introduction of PAs is the fact that they are paid more than the doctors

Govt. can find money for strike breaking but not for properly paying our skilled doctors. Govt is contemptible.

I was interested to see this. Maybe not such a rush abroad by doctors.

There is a haemorrhage of trained doctors leaving the UK. They are being replaced by some doctors from abroad and these Physician Associates.

I was treated by a PA in local a&e for conjunctivitis. He was efficient, kind and had very good people skills.