6 Day Doctors Strike

Having worked in the City (London) for many years within financial services, prior to working local in the public sector. I’m afraid I too agree with GSM, you simply cannot compare commercial businesses with public sector works. Our country, like all of the Western World, works on an economic model and thus those generating income are going to be paid the most. Doesn’t make a top barrister any more important than a Doctor.

I think carers and nursery workers do extremely worthwhile and important and stressful roles, yet some are barely paid more than minimum wage.

I do understand you are comparing like for like in terms of academic achievement and specialised knowledge, but you’re not comparing those roles in terms of commercial acumen.

Doesn’t make it morally right, but this isn’t a moral discussion.

Whilst I do support the junior doctors right to strike, I accept this will cause patients issues and delays and just really don’t know what the entire answers to this are or should be. Personally, I’d pay them what I feel they’re worth, clearly we all have differing views.

The Tories are determined to destroy the NHS…junior doctors leave university with thousands and thousands of pounds of debt, they can have up to 10 years of experience…it’s ridiculous that they have all that responsibility but can still be paid less than a manager of a supermarket. They need to be paid properly if they are to remain in the NHS/UK…

Optomistic1

Thank you for being so candid.

I do have relatives in the NHS on both the nursing and doctor side, so am a little aware of how much they can earn, especially if they decide to pull a 12 hour night shift extra shifts.

I’m aware our NHS is less than perfect and is well funded. There’s lots wrong, but I still feel the starting salaries if qualified doctors and nurses doesn’t reflect their training and expertise, though I have to agree that their pensions outstrip any other public sector pensions and agree this could be reviewed and pay increased in their first five or so years and pensions reduced, but undoubtedly this isn’t how it works and no doubt the funding model for pensions wouldn’t support this.

He who pays decides what he is willing to pay for the service offered.

Germanshepherdsmum

You can’t compare a doctor paid by the taxpayer with a partner in a City law firm paid over £1m a year by his clients. Consider priests, the most obvious example of a calling - poorly paid but do they strike? No, they’re there when needed, day or night.

Why? Because it’s the way it’s always been. That doesn’t mean it’s right, or it can’t change. A priest isn’t really a comparitor either, because the training is shorter, the qualifications for entry not so high. I’m not going to argue about value to society in that context. We will have to agree to differ because I can see no reason for a vocation being an excuse for doctors to be paid less than others who have undergone equivalent training.

You can’t compare a doctor paid by the taxpayer with a partner in a City law firm paid over £1m a year by his clients. Consider priests, the most obvious example of a calling - poorly paid but do they strike? No, they’re there when needed, day or night.

Hope all goes well for you Ilovedragons. You got in the system speedily so you are ahead of the curve now. Gives you the best chance.

I disagree Germanshepherdsmum. Why should people who have a vocation be paid less than people who are in other professions of equivalent or lower worth to society?

I saw a physicians associate on Tuesday. She found a lump I couldn't feel in my breast, referred me as an emergency and I'm in hospital on the 17th, seeing a breast surgeon. She was marvellous.

The ignorance here is striking. Doctors have long training because there’s a lot to learn.
Nurses are not doctors.
Physician associates are not doctors.
We can only get holistic treatment with knowledgeable, experienced medics.
Eg. A psychiatrist shouldn’t be someone who simply prescribes. He should have a medical background so he can diagnose comorbidities. That’s why counselling can be dangerous when people need to see a psych.
Same applies in all specialities.
There is no quick answer to training.

If it’s your vocation then surely devotion to your patients is your main purpose in life - not striking for more money, misleading the public as to what your pay package is actually worth, and putting people’s lives at risk.

The NHS has become a hot potato politically. No party will address it IMO. Reading these posts, especially from people who have insider knowledge, informs us of the lies told all round.
I realise we are now in 2024 but the news on all channels, showed a hospital yesterday with so many “managers” plus a matron in wearing full make up including false eyelashes. Friends who trained in the NHS years ago always spoke of standards. I haven’t heard much of that recently.

Why is it that society expects doctors to be selfless?

This is what worries me too. Where is their compassion?

When I was a child in the 50s I had severe asthma. The village GP was a sole practitioner. He never complained about night calls and was in the surgery as usual next day and also making house calls. He was a lovely and patient man. I doubt that what GPs and junior doctors do today is remotely comparable to his devotion to his patients.

Some years ago, I needed a blood transfusion. It was the first week in August, and a newly qualified doctor tried a few times to insert a cannula, but in the end, the registrar did it.

I also agree! Even those who should know what a Junior Doctor is, often do not.

I think it is just plain greed on the doctors' parts. Yes, they work hard, but there are many, many people who work just as hard for a fraction of their wages. The doctors don't seem to care about the people falling ill, the backlogs, anything except getting paid. And their timing - to cause maximum impact. There they were yesterday on their picket lines, some smirking - I wanted to slap them.

Did anybody ever see a poor doctor. The retired doctors that I know live in amazing houses, drive posh cars, go on worldwide holidays several times a year, etc, etc. This is what these greedy doctors should bear in mind.

I am speaking from the point of view of someone with two parents, both with cancer, both held up in interminable queues and waiting lists. Those doctors disgust me.

NHS could not work without clinical staff but it could also not work without managers, cleaners, buyers, accountants etc. no one person or group of staff is more important than another in then NHS
I agree but how efficiently is it being run?

Some staff seem to be working under extreme stress and pressure especially in A&E and on some wards, yet go to some out-patient clinics and they seem to be very relaxed and in fact over-staffed with nurses.

I fully agree it needs a revolution but it will never happen on our lifetime.

However I do think there is lots of things the public could do not help teh situation - ie don’t just order relate prescriptions of you don’t need them ( you can’t blame the govt for that! ) only go to A&E with an accident or an emergency… look after your self with diet and exercise. People just expect the NHS to fix everything these days…

If the NHS were staffed properly there wouldn’t be a need for overtime or agency staff. The govt is quite happy to pay large sums out for these but not prepared to pay doctors a decent salary. Night shifts aren’t a piece of cake when you are the only dr on duty covering dozens of patients.

I was recently phoned by a 'clinician' at my GP surgery...She was very polite and helpful and after discussion she said she would increase one of my regular medications to help resolve a specific issue...
When I went online earlier this week to order my repeat meds, I noticed that the phone call I had from the clinician was actually a Physicians Associate...I've never heard of this title/role in the NHS...so on checking this out, was amazed to read that they earn around 44,000 on entry after the masters degree/training etc which some have confirmed is a 2-4 yr course...also, I read that THEY CANNOT PRESCRIBE...well my PA did and am concerned that maybe i should be phoning my designated GP and ask for assurance or confirmation...its still a nightmare to get thru on phone and don't really wish to visit the surgery and let all in Reception know of my reason for a GP call on one of their PAs prescribing ...
I learn so much on here...thank you GNs

Optomistic1

Why do you think the govt does not care. Do you have any idea how much money is pumped into the NHS?

I wonder how much is wasted in incompetence and inefficiency? For example, appointment notifications sent out after the date of the appointments so that the staff waste so much time waiting for patients who don't turn up because they never received their appointment.
Repeat prescriptions where patients just collect medication whether or not they need it.
Areas of the NHS which do not have enough money allocated to provide an efficient service, eg A&E so that ambulances are backed up with sick patients in car parks for hours; one person we know spent 24 hours in the ambulance outside the hospital waiting for admittance.

I was chatting to a family member the other day who worked in the NHS and she said that many members of their team had left due to the stress of the job, which of course, places enormous burdens on those left to cope.

The NHS in so many areas is just not working, whether or not there are strikes. It doesn't need a makeover, it needs a revolution.

Cossy you would be horrified to hear how much doctors earn during covid….. and I mean horrified. It was eye watering amounts ( for many different reasons ) but some drs absolutely earn a fortune during this period. And before anyone asks I know cos I saw the salaries being paid every month.

Cossy I was directed by the receptionist at my surgery to go to A&E for treatment of conjunctivitis. What more can I say?
It is a painful condition.