6 Day Doctors Strike

Cossy I was a clinician who moved chose to move into management. Although I no longer treated patients I believed by leading the clinicians and facilitating them to do their jobs I was in fact helping patients. Most ‘ pen pushers’ feel the same in the NHS. They care as much about patient care as any clinician does but again that is never reported in the news…. NHS could not work without clinical staff but it could also not work without managers, cleaners, buyers, accountants etc. no one person or group of staff is more important than another in then NHS it’s just that some have a bigger voice….( and union!).

Interested to understand why the poster here went to a local A&E for conjunctivitis?

Surely using A&E in this way instead of her GP, Optician or local pharmacist is one of the many reasons our NHS is struggling?

Just like to say to those saying eye infections are easy to treat I spent over 30 years getting the wrong treatment antibiotics and antibiotic eye ointment for up to 9 each year really bad eye infections from various GPs. Went to Bristol eye hospital and they did swabs one Easter when GP was closed. It was a viral eye infection caused by coldsore virus. Had antivirals and now only get it once or twice a year. Saw a consultant at the Eye hospital who knew what it was. Result is amoxicillin no longer effective for anything with me as I've had so much needlessly. It's not just easy to diagnose.

NHS Resolution pays out on medical claims for negligence in the NHS and they’re very large sums indeed.
It feels as if the NHS is not working as it should.

Indeed Aveline. I have never believed this £14 per hour rubbish.

Very interesting Optimistic. I wonder why this isn't all over the media? Something about not letting facts get in the way of a good story perhaps?

Optomistic1

Just out of interest. are you clinically qualified or were you, what many of us would consider “a quango” or “pen pusher”

Honestly, I feel that they are highly trained and experienced even when “newly qualified” and not all “junior doctors” are newly qualified.

Given what this govt “wasted” just on PPE and what many doctors went through during Covid, I think they fully deserve pay which reflects their worth.

Personally I think doctors are worth far more than many currently earn.

Yes, it will affect patients, which includes my husband waiting for two non life threatening operations.

👏👏👏 Optimistic1. Well said.

Why do you think the govt does not care. Do you have any idea how much money is pumped into the NHS?

Granny Ven the only people trying to destroy the NHS is the striking workforce. What evidence do you have that the tarries are trying to destroy it? Because they won’t give in to ridiculous pay rise requests?

Has it not occurred to you that any employee private or public sector has had a real terms pay cut over the last few years?

I retired from the NHS a few years ago and was a director so I know exactly how much doctors earn and I am disappointed to hear the BMA not tell the whole truth over any doctors salary. All junior doctors have to do nights which gives them a approx 35% uplift in their salary. This is not mentioned anywhere. In addition to this many of them chose to work extra shifts over their 40 hours and believe me they can earn a lot of money doing this.
However the real shock is what the BMA recommend consultants should be paid to cover additional work ie things like covering the lingering junior dr strike. I have just down loaded this from the BMA website to get the most up to date figures. These rates range from £161 AN HOUR to £269 an hour.

So a consultant covering a junior dr night shift of 12 hours will earn £3228 for 12 hours work. This will be in addition to their normal salary.

My ex colleagues tell me many consultants are earning £10k plus during the junior drs strike days in addition to their salaries ( and don’t forget the clinical excellence awards but that’s another issue)

The junior drs of today will be consultants one day so I personally don’t support them atall and feel that the BMA is using them as political pawns. I know lots of doctors who do not support these strikes due to the harm it is causing patients whilst colleagues are financially benefiting.

I am sure some people will disagree with me which is fine but the facts about salaries are out there is people what to see them. Don’t believe everything you are told by the left wing BMA.

‘MaizieD

Pointless to discuss this, really. We've been over and over it before. 'Junior' doctors are not newly qualified or still in training. The term covers doctors at every level below that of Consultant.
All the doctors are asking is for their pay level to be restored to the level they were earning before Osborne got going with his unnecessary 'austerity' programme more than a decade ago. The government is refusing to restore those levels because it is still strongly opposed to spending on public services. It's a face-off between the two.
I'm on the side of the doctors, though I appreciate that it's not causing me or my family any pain or inconvenience, so it's easy to say. All the public employees who have been disgracefully underpaid since 2010 deserve better pay and I would support any of them if on strike.’

Well said, I totally agree with this.
The Tories voted against the NHS before it’s creation in 1948.
They are trying (quite successfully) to destroy it now.
Let’s hope we can get rid of them soon, and have a government that actually cares about and supports the NHS.

Idon`t know any of this... I admit it,, another example of how corrupt our society is? just wondering

what I do know is that I read that so called topadministrators or whatever title they get given, without medical qualifications get far more pay than the doctors... all wrong to my simple mind, but deep sighs, that is the way of this country.

ronib

I wonder why the pension contribution can’t be reduced from 20 to 10 percent in the first two years of working and the difference given in pay?
It seems fairly obvious that the last two years of working life are the most highly paid for medics and any shortfall in pension contributions could be made at that point. Or some such arrangement?

That sounds sensible, particularly as many experienced consultants are leaving the profession because there is a limit on what they can pay into their pension scheme.

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

As I understand it the Physician's Associate doesn't have the salary prospects of a "junior" doctor and obviously won't become a consultant.
There are also Nurse Consultants whom we found to be very knowledgeable and competent indeed when my husband was in the cardiac unit.

Quite. I know of no other public or private sector employer which makes such an incredible contribution to the employee’s pension. However I suspect that the pension contribution is not made in actual cash today, but rather along the lines of a promise for the future. Nevertheless, becoming a consultant in a few years with the ability to do private work on the side and retiring early on a very fat pension is something that isn’t focused on. It should be.

I wonder why the pension contribution can’t be reduced from 20 to 10 percent in the first two years of working and the difference given in pay?
It seems fairly obvious that the last two years of working life are the most highly paid for medics and any shortfall in pension contributions could be made at that point. Or some such arrangement?

It's just another government ploy, find a scapegoat. The NHS is in a mess....Well it's the fault of those greedy junior doctors! Interestingly, the pay review board used to recommend a salary increase without restrictions but now it has to be "affordable" During austerity this has acted as a brake on doctor's salaries which is why they have fallen so far behind.

I don't have a problem with MAPs as long as they are properly trained, regulated and supported. Many are nurses who have had a further two years of training, it gives them more career progression and responsability. My daughter works with anaesthetic assistants (AAs)and that is what they are "assistants" trained to do certain jobs that would not be the remit of a nurse and it relieves the anaesthetist of some of the more routine jobs. They have to be very well supervised. However, I think there is concern that PAs are not as well supervised because hospitals are frequently under staffed. This doesn't happen with AAs because if a theatre doesn't have the right staffing, the operation is cancelled.

I would have loved an employer who paid over 20% of my salary into my pension. Most I got was 6% in local government and once I was self employed it was entirely down to what I could afford to contribute.

I have limited sympathy with the doctors, basic pay is £30k or so for 40 hours then extra payments for out of hours, unsocial, weekend etc and they are still learning. I found a Junior Doctor in his first year was pretty useless, an experienced nurse knew far more.
On the plus side there is security of employment a good pension and a pay scale that takes them to £100k and beyond. Yes it’s tough in the first few years but you make it up quickly.

I support the doctors and feel the government are just being confrontational for the sake of it. They don’t give a toss about waiting lists etc doctors are worth way more than they are currently paid. My electrician earns more than a doctor in A and E. Whoever is health secretary this week needs to get round the table and sort this out.

I had a cataract operation a month ago that went wrong. Hoping the check up appointment next week won’t be cancelled. So far so good. Have four consultants monitoring me. It hasn’t gone well but I’m hoping it will settle eventually. I can watch TV and read the paper thank goodness but it’s far from perfect.

a person sat in A&E for 16 hours in a chair waiting

That's normal here, even longer (some patients had waited for 3 days in the MAU when I was there) and they're not on strike in Wales.

Just on the news tonight video of the junior doctor smiling and looking really happy to be on strike. 88,000 appointments cancelled, a person sat in A&E for 16 hours in a chair waiting, hospitals appealing for junior doctors to come in to help as all hospitals in crisis. People will die, thousands are suffering and they are outside smiling and looking happy with their placards. Thankfully none of my DAC are doctors I would be so ashamed of them. Message on TV said don't go to A&E unless it's a life and death situation. Disgusting