6 Day Doctors Strike

Casdon well it’s arguable that by not settling with the junior doctors, the government is in effect causing money to be spent and it’s out of the NHS budget I assume?

ronib

Grantanow Does paying out billions to locums count as doing something?

Is the government doing that? I’d assumed locum payments came from the budgets of the Health organisations affected, resulting in less money for other things, but maybe not?

Grantanow Does paying out billions to locums count as doing something?

Whatever the merits or demerits of the 'junior' doctors' pay claim the fact is that the strikes are happening on this government's watch and it is doing nothing to resolve the problem which is affecting large numbers of patients.

And not even reporting Covid cases properly so people have very idea of the infection rate in their community. Information is power. People need to know. And the lack of proper guidance about going to work is appalling. The advice to go to work if you feel okay even if you have Covid is irresponsible in the extreme.

Of course that is nothing to do with the doctor’s strike.

And the absence of any restrictions on going out knowing or suspecting that you have covid, not even a requirement to wear a mask.

Cadenza123

SueDonim

On the topic of excess deaths, there is a report today about that very same occurring in Scotland, where doctors are not on strike.

Excess deaths are occurring worldwide.

Probably as a result of pretending that covid is just a bout of flu and ignoring its far more damaging effect on internal organs and the immune system.

Well Glorianny other comparison sites find differently - Uk definitely cheaper!

ronib

Glorianny of course Southern Ireland has a high cost of living so salaries need to be higher than here. This might help explain the shortage of gps in that country?

Actually it is about the same. With some things like housing coming in cheaper.
www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/united-kingdom/ireland

Glorianny of course Southern Ireland has a high cost of living so salaries need to be higher than here. This might help explain the shortage of gps in that country?

ronib

Glorianny I am well and truly lost now. Junior doctors are not on the same pay scale as trainee gps and gps. I am sure that some compromise will be found eventually. At what cost to patient care is for anyone to guess.
I always like to think of consequences and responsibilities.

It's simple if you are a medical student and you are considering your career, a country which is within easy distance of your family offers you more money and needs GPs. Your own country needs doctors at every level too but isn't paying as much. Where do you go?
Yes the consequences of this awful government's lack of commitment to the NHS are terrible. I can't see them accepting any responsibility.

SueDonim

On the topic of excess deaths, there is a report today about that very same occurring in Scotland, where doctors are not on strike.

Excess deaths are occurring worldwide.

Glorianny I am well and truly lost now. Junior doctors are not on the same pay scale as trainee gps and gps. I am sure that some compromise will be found eventually. At what cost to patient care is for anyone to guess.
I always like to think of consequences and responsibilities.

Sorry rnib you've lost me. I'm a bear of very little brain and I don't understand why you have brought up excess deaths on a thread about the doctor's strike.
Nor do I understand why Ireland's GP shortage is of interest, unless of course it's because as they pay more they'll be actively and successfully recruiting our junior doctors to fill the gap. Which is another reason they need to be paid properly.

Glorianny doesn’t Southern Ireland have a problem with gp numbers? They have 30 percent less than the UK?

The increase in deaths, the age reduction predates the pandemic

Glorianny I didn’t think I had claimed that excess deaths were linked to the fact that doctors continue to strike. Although it could be a coincidence? I think the point is that we don’t know why we have excess deaths following on from the pandemic as far as I know.

Exactly Glorianny. In addition, recent research confirms the earlier age and increased death rate is linked to the unnecessary austerity policy.

ronib

Glorianny How can you compare an agrarian society with a population of 5 million to that of an over packed country approaching 70 million? Etc etc

I wasn't I was pointing out that excess deaths are not as you claim linked with the doctor's strike. But it is interesting how can a largely agrarian society pay its doctors more than a highly developed country?
meddoc.ie/why-working-in-healthcare-in-ireland-beats-healthcare-work-in-the-uk/

Glorianny How can you compare an agrarian society with a population of 5 million to that of an over packed country approaching 70 million? Etc etc

Freya5

Glorianny

ronib

Glorianny my husband seems to think that excess deaths are occurring now.

No you have misunderstood entirely. No one is suggesting that doctors should not be paid a reasonable rate with good working conditions. However what is beginning to be beyond acceptable is the way these negotiations are handled.

Bit of a red herring about male doctors assaulting female doctors? I wasn’t expecting that.

They may be, but I gave you two examples to look at because I think if there is evidence that as unacceptable deaths took place here during covid, not elsewhere, and are also happening now, the common denominator cannot be the doctors' strike.

I agree about the negotiations but if the government will not engage in debate what else can be done?

I think saying female doctors just want more money is far more unacceptable and my post reveals one reason they step back from advancement.

Unacceptable deaths only in the UK, I don't think so. A political statement if ever there was one.Sure Labour would do no better, in fact St starmer wanted to lock us up for longer, causing even more mental health and educational problems.
Countries in Europe also had many deaths, some more than us per million. This will happen during a pandemic which no country had a handle on.

Try reading the whole thread not just one post. Ireland had no excess deaths during covid www.gov.ie/en/press-release/26bd4-oecd-research-shows-ireland-avoided-excess-deaths-during-core-pandemic-years/
Which was what I referred to.

Glorianny

ronib

Glorianny my husband seems to think that excess deaths are occurring now.

No you have misunderstood entirely. No one is suggesting that doctors should not be paid a reasonable rate with good working conditions. However what is beginning to be beyond acceptable is the way these negotiations are handled.

Bit of a red herring about male doctors assaulting female doctors? I wasn’t expecting that.

They may be, but I gave you two examples to look at because I think if there is evidence that as unacceptable deaths took place here during covid, not elsewhere, and are also happening now, the common denominator cannot be the doctors' strike.

I agree about the negotiations but if the government will not engage in debate what else can be done?

I think saying female doctors just want more money is far more unacceptable and my post reveals one reason they step back from advancement.

Unacceptable deaths only in the UK, I don't think so. A political statement if ever there was one.Sure Labour would do no better, in fact St starmer wanted to lock us up for longer, causing even more mental health and educational problems.
Countries in Europe also had many deaths, some more than us per million. This will happen during a pandemic which no country had a handle on.

Grantanow I hate to think how many will die if you’re expecting Tory ministers to offer treatment? Just in case you hadn’t noticed it was the junior doctors who had downed tools.

I think we need a punchy ITV drama about people dying in ambulances while Tory Ministers do nothing. If it works for postmasters why not for patients?

I do understand the concerns, I think the role can work well in hospital settings where the PA has very clear guidelines, sees patients who are there for a specific procedure or examination and there is supervision. It’s much harder to do that in general practice.
What I don’t understand is why the practices themselves are deciding to appoint PAs. Theres a very clear role for practice pharmacists, as they have a range of knowledge that GPs don’t, and that seems to work very well in most practices, but the only reason I can think why a practice would employ a PA is financial, or maybe it is the managed practices who can’t recruit GPs at all that are employing them - which is worrying if there is not sufficient supervision.