Labour's latest policy announcement

MaizieD

I agree with you, DAR.

But I think there are Liberals and liberals.

I don't think that the Liberal party exemplify liberalism in its fullest sense. On their past record, looking at their part in the 2010 -2014 coalition government, they tend more to neo-liberalism than liberalism with their embrace of neo-liberal (neo-capitalist) economics, though, as I haven't looked too closely at their current policies they may have changed.

I agree. It's really all very confusing. PR would probably help make parties identify their differences. I have always wondered why the Liberal Party didn't change its name to just Democrats when they accommodated the ex SDP members.

A centre party with just that as a name could attract a lot more left-of-centre, right-of-centre and general centre but I supposed they would have to espouse a mixed economy (hopefully) and really that's a whole other party.

Thanks for helping me chew this over Maisie. I do hope this last 15 years will bring a whole new political era but perhaps I should be careful what I wish for

You might, or might not, like Ian Dunt's Substack post here, DAR:

iandunt.substack.com/p/2024-the-year-we-bury-the-culture

Ian is a liberal. He even wrote a book about how to be one! He's a bit sweary, but he's perceptive, too.

I agree with you, DAR.

But I think there are Liberals and liberals.

I don't think that the Liberal party exemplify liberalism in its fullest sense. On their past record, looking at their part in the 2010 -2014 coalition government, they tend more to neo-liberalism than liberalism with their embrace of neo-liberal (neo-capitalist) economics, though, as I haven't looked too closely at their current policies they may have changed.

We do have to remember the law doesn't apply to these "Conservatives". That's why I have stopped calling the government that. It's unfair to real Conservatives. It's also unfair to Liberals to call them neo-Liberals. Liberalism should encompass everyone. This is very much a party with one set of laws and rules for all but "liberalism" only when applied to those who see themselves as the "elite".

I currently see them as neo-capitalists. They see the "capital" and its surroundings as the only place for investment, and "business" pretty much limited to gambling in the city - no actual hard work for this lot. There may be another name for them (I'm sure there are several) but this us how I see them at the moment.

No equality of investment for the rest of the country
Very little help for SMEs
No investment in our services
Trying to pass off maintenance (filling London's pothole using money meant for actual investment in the North) as investment.

... I'm sure others can add more. The only " conserving they do is of there own wealth.

I have legal qualifications but little interest in the subject FP. I leave that to the Tory bashers.

Thank you Maizie- that was in January 2022. A lot more has come to light since then. I would have thought anyone with legal qualifications and interest in the subject, would have been aware of these findings.

What nonsense flappergirl. By the way I am not a member of the Conservative Party.

Thank you Maizie, I will read that.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/12/use-of-vip-lane-to-award-covid-ppe-contracts-unlawful-high-court-rules

Germanshepherdsmum

Unlawful? We shall see

It went to judicial review, GSM. The VIP lane was found to be unlawful.

Germanshepherdsmum

I doubt you have refused any of these advantages either.

What a meaningless comment.

Why should I refuse the great advances in health care and social reform that my family has, for generations, supported?

Is it not wrong to accept them when your party has historically blocked them at every opportunity? Surely you and your Tory circle of friends should eschew them and set a principled example.

Mush ???

... ahem, "Much"

Casdon

FullFact.
fullfact.org/health/covid-ppe-fraud-rishi-sunak/

Thanks for that, Casdon.

Mush as I distrusted the government's 'actions' at the time (I do not believe they were adequately prepared) - and still distrust their explanations and reasoning - facts are so very important, as much in relation to this government as any other.

This stood out...

The £14.9 billion figure may refer to an estimate for the total loss in value of DHSC stock. This is not a measure of fraud, and includes many things besides PPE.

As FF states, False or misleading claims online have the potential to harm confidence in democratic processes and institutions. Online claims can spread fast and far, and are difficult to contain and correct.

So true. And misleading claims does the cause of justice no good whatsoever.

How many people bother to investigate - as opposed to just parroting what they pick up on social media because it suits their argument?

I doubt you have refused any of these advantages either.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you know, or have personal knowledge of, any Conservative voter who would rather people die than let the country care for them? I know no such person, and as you well know I mix in Conservative circles. I await clarification.

I don't know any that would admit to it, no. Yet still they vote for a party founded in moral bankruptcy. A party that blocked every effort to introduce factory reforms, welfare for the poor, the formation of the NHS and the State Pension. A party that forced miners to buy food at inflated prices from company stores whilst the "captains" of industry used the blood soaked coal to amass fortunes.

A party that would rather see tons of sewage poured into our waterways and seas solely to line the pockets of share holders.

Still, I'm sure you haven't refused any of the advantages of living in a civilised society so hard won by the Liberal party and subsequently the Labour party. Your pension, the NHS, working in an environment that isn't likely to kill you? The list goes on.

No? I thought not.

Germanshepherdsmum

I doubt that your experience covered the pandemic emergency, when there was no time for normal tender procedures. I have defended nothing, if you read my posts. I have said that I await the outcome of investigations and I have given a legal definition of corruption and a pointer towards anti-fraud legislation. And I have never claimed to be ‘up to date with every aspect of the law’ - that statement alone shows your very broad brush and inaccurate view.

So, if you’re not up to date with every aspect of the law, how come you’re so quick to condemn Keir for trying to improve upon it as it now stands?

Unlawful? We shall see

Germanshepherdsmum

Well I know you love to bash the UK, but what evidence do you have of ‘fraud with mates’?

Unlawful VIP lane, GSM? Which civil servants were told to prioritise...

I'm pretty partial to bashing the UK, too, when it is in the wrong.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well I know you love to bash the UK, but what evidence do you have of ‘fraud with mates’?

Honestly? Really?

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you know, or have personal knowledge of, any Conservative voter who would rather people die than let the country care for them? I know no such person, and as you well know I mix in Conservative circles. I await clarification.

Boris Johnson.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/boris-johnson-covid-natures-way-dealing-with-old-people-patrick-vallance-inquiry/

I doubt that your experience covered the pandemic emergency, when there was no time for normal tender procedures. I have defended nothing, if you read my posts. I have said that I await the outcome of investigations and I have given a legal definition of corruption and a pointer towards anti-fraud legislation. And I have never claimed to be ‘up to date with every aspect of the law’ - that statement alone shows your very broad brush and inaccurate view.

Your faith in this Tory administration is admonishing GSM, especially for one who always tells us how up to date she is with every aspect of law......contracts, criminal, property, commercial. I am astonished that you have time for anything else! Your defence of the PPE scandal is unfathomable to me. I was previously involved in bid evaluation of multi million pound contracts (as part of a team) and I can assure you that no company which had been formed a week prior to the bid, that had no previous relevant experience and failed the most basic financial checks by having only around £100 in the bank would have been shown the door.

Do you know, or have personal knowledge of, any Conservative voter who would rather people die than let the country care for them? I know no such person, and as you well know I mix in Conservative circles. I await clarification.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well I know you love to bash the UK, but what evidence do you have of ‘fraud with mates’?

Nobody's is bashing the UK - very nazi-style statement. They are telling the truth about Tory voters, their politicians and the scroungers around them.

That's a really interesting piece Maisie. Thank you.

As we are all well aware, the extremes of the Conservative voters would rather people died than let us, as a country care for them and that means they attack those least able to defend themselves ...

... or am I now going down the same route as ...

Labour always overspends - really, after zero investment in the country for 15 years

That Labour leaders aren't strong within their party - reaĺly, when the neo-capitalists have had the many and often leaders by the short and curlies for 15 years

And that "Uk politics has made a wholesale shift to the left in the last 15 years" (I dare not answer that).

Unsurprisingly, I don't think I am listening and believing something similar the lies that we hear from those who believe the Tory owned media.

As to whom neither you nor I have any evidence - the matter is under investigation.