Labour's latest policy announcement

Some companies can be diabolical with fixing problems, the phone agents just don’t escalate it to someone who can fix it, a couple of times after emailing them for a few weeks I’ve canceled the DD.
That got their attention and it got fixed, e-mail is useful because it’s evidence and proves how useless they are.

I understand where you are coming Katie but the point I was trying to make was my DH like the Sub Post Office people did not make any mistakes but it was assumed they had.

The problem arose when no one would speak to us and so we had to fight the system to prove his innocence. Not easy when there is no communication or you are talking to robots, which is happening more and more.

Our DS, this Christmas sorted out our BT problems as we have very poor internet connection, once again only getting a robotic answers from BT. DS discovered that BT were over charging us £70 a month for something we didn't have or need. it took him 2 days to sort that one out and he hasn't finished yet. Another on ongoing problem.

Yes, it can be said that in all this we are stupid and ignorant of today's systems. We are not technically minded with very little knowledge of how things work, which makes us and those like us vulnerable and open to abuse.

Unfortunately ignorance is no defence but thank goodness for people like Martin Lewis, Rip off Britain and our accountant who do make us aware.

Making mistakes in your accounts is very expensive because if HMRC think there is something dodgy they will estimate what is owing and it’s up to you to prove them wrong.

I have a cousin who is a tax inspector, she enjoys catching out the tax fiddlers, most are just stupid “forgetting” to tell the accountant about selling something. Most pay up the tax and the penalty without fuss, they know fighting will cost them a lot more, only occasionally does it get to court. “Doing a physical inspection of the business, I can tell who is tax dodging within a couple of hours, I know all the fiddles”

Well Germanshepherdsmum thank you for your passionate response and I am quite happy for you to explain what fraud really is.

As for my husband's predicament, after Brexit he was charged two lots taxes each month on his pension. However instead of meeting and talking to a real person from HMRC to resolve the situation my 72 year old DH spent hours on the phone, most of the time being cut off after waiting for over an hour. This went on day after day for 6 months until finally my DH was threatened with legal action for not paying his taxes. It was only after 2 years working with an accountant, solicitor and our MP did we manage to prove HMRC were wrong and the truth that my DH did not owe any taxes. HMRC made a mistake. All we wanted was to talk to them to find out what the error was, but they would not listen. Sound familiar?

It seems to me a systematic failure of the government controlling the public purse to admit they make mistakes just like the rest of us, but that can't possible be true because they are the trusted people of the public purse.

Anyway enough said I had my rant and will leave it at that.

I will vote for the party that will make sure these problems are dealt with as soon as they occur, not blame us and accept they, or their machines, are always right. Before assuming the people are wrong they must question what has gone wrong with the system and prove they are right before pointing the finger.

Still pigs do fly in the country

What are you talking about Zoe?

Everyone but everyone surely knows by now there was no "beergate". It was all in thd vivid imagination of this lying government and its lying client newspapers. By the time the Hartlepool by-election took place covid levels had fallen, and the lockdown regulations, had been eased. The people having something to eat and finishing off a days work for the by-election did nothing wrong.

On 8 July 2022, Durham Constabulary announced that all those , including Rayner and Starmer, had been cleared of any wrongdoing. By then, the government was in crisis, and on 7 July Johnson had announced his resignation.

I've no idea what you mean by Starmer telling lies re Brexit. I have a feeling you have been reading discredited sources. It certainly sounds like your sources are very much in the slow lane, but eventually some truth will reach you.

It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee now Zoe65.

I have no interest in ANYTHING keir starmer has to say .
What about all the lies he’s told us re brexit ,the beergate incident and so on!

I don’t think you have much understanding of ‘fraud’ freyja. You ask who would sue ‘the public purse’. What?

Your husband’s experience was not ‘government fraud’. Nor is the situation of WASPIs. - the law was not changed without notice.

You seem to think that any action by the government which may operate to someone’s disadvantage is fraud. It isn’t. Try to dislodge that chip on your shoulder about ‘the little people’.

You’re right freyja. The Government asks the police (public servants) to investigate the post office (public servants), calls for a public inquiry (lots of public servants) and ultimately the government pays the injured parties out of the public purse, if they gave every affected postmaster say, a million pounds each and held up their hands it would be so much kinder, cheaper, more efficient and quicker. I suppose this way it keeps lawyers in a job.

I would like to know who will sue the 'public purse' for fraud. as in the case of the post office, whom we are reminded is owed by the tax payer. These sub-post people, had all their money stolen by the post office, which went into company's profit account. These little people were persecuted, stripped of their homes, living and dignity by the Post Office, owed by the 'tax payer' in other words the government. All they can talk about is compensation. That is not paying back what money was stolen and the 25 years it took to prove it. The post office took this money under false accusations, which is fraud.

Another example of government fraud is when my husband was threatened with legal action by the HMRC after he refused to pay taxes they said he owed but did not. We had to hired an accountant to proved them wrong, it took 2 years of unnecessary stress and expense because HMRC wouldn't listen.

Don't even mention the WASPI fraud, where the government changed the law without notice, resulting in £30.00 taken from my pension.
Now they are trying to do the same with social benefits.

I agree it is time for a change but it's the government who must put their house in order before attacking the little people.
Sorry for the rant but I am just tired of hearing how terrible hard working people are, when you all you see the rich getting richer and more powerful.

It would Germanshepherdsmum. Should they announce the election date and Richie agree to live debates, I'm sure he will ask or further detail may be given by Labour.

I have already said that we have legislation in respect of fraud, including fraud by abuse of office. The Fraud Act 2006. It would be interesting to see Starmer, as a KC and former DPP, questioned closely by another lawyer on his statement.

Ramblingrose22

While there are laws that already make defrauding the public purse a crime there is no harm in making a blanket law to catch all methods of fraud as some types may have been missed and new methods could become possible in the future.

All politicians play to the gallery - nothing unique to Keir Starmer. Just watch Prime Minister's Questions to see that every week!

Sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.

It depends entirely on how any law is worded whether it is worthwhile bringing it in, or not.

Fraud as already said is a crime, and it is not, in my view, worse to defraud any government body than it is to defraud a small business or a private citizen.

A blanket law might well just slow down the process of bringing those who behave fraudulently to justice.

Grantanow

Yes, more attention needs to be paid to tax evasion by the wealthy.

I think it has been tried in the past.

Seems to me, to come down to who can pay for the most expensive lawyers. And it isnt the government.

I meant to say I welcome Labours intention to punish misuse of public money, if we have an existing similar law & this one duplicates it there are probably some bits that can be clarified. No gov't ever should be allowed to spend a freely from the public purse as this one has, I wish we could edit our posts

flappergirl

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you know, or have personal knowledge of, any Conservative voter who would rather people die than let the country care for them? I know no such person, and as you well know I mix in Conservative circles. I await clarification.

I don't know any that would admit to it, no. Yet still they vote for a party founded in moral bankruptcy. A party that blocked every effort to introduce factory reforms, welfare for the poor, the formation of the NHS and the State Pension. A party that forced miners to buy food at inflated prices from company stores whilst the "captains" of industry used the blood soaked coal to amass fortunes.

A party that would rather see tons of sewage poured into our waterways and seas solely to line the pockets of share holders.

Still, I'm sure you haven't refused any of the advantages of living in a civilised society so hard won by the Liberal party and subsequently the Labour party. Your pension, the NHS, working in an environment that isn't likely to kill you? The list goes on.

No? I thought not.

well said Flappergirl!!! The Tories have treated the treasury like their own personal cashpoint and put shareholder profits before duty in the companies they've invested in. I'm thinking sewage etc

For LizzieDrip -- your "un-evidenced assumptions" jibe is EXACTLY what you're doing with speculation about that Manifesto. ALL parties have shown, going back many decades, that manifesto 'promises' (undertakings, hopes, dreams, intentions, etc etc) are just advertising and PR fluff, to be backtracked and amended as and when your vote is safely bagged.

Thank you monty, that’s very kind of you.

Thank you Getmanshepherdsmum for your professional and rational contributions.

You can be assured that anything that is done by accountants or lawyers these days is legal and not tax evasion. You might not like the allowances that HMRC make but they are legal. Inheritance tax is one example, gifts are another example where you can transfer money without paying tax. (If you have enough spare).

It’s a pretty meaningless statement IMHO. The law already has the powers to imprison people for fraud, benefit and other types. Not long ago a criminal ring was exposed for a major benefit fraud to the tune of 770,000 or so, major stuff they should be concentrating on. Or the massive frauds (including those the government okayed) taking place during Covid. I doubt they’re intending to throw the book at shoplifters for petty crime, and I can’t see the guy down the road being imprisoned for not declaring a couple of hundred pounds he’s earned on the side! Not economically viable and no prison space anyway, or has the esteemed Sir Keir conveniently forgotten that! It’s just a soundbyte to win votes and satisfy the middle classes who moan that ‘something must be done’. I’d be more interested to hear his thoughts on other aspects of criminality such as the appalling stats in rape convictions or the deportation of immigrants to this country who break the law in the most heinous ways. But no, let’s go for the easy win, shall we? He must think we’re all fools!

There already is a law for benefit fraud many people are convicted annually

It is easier to identify "benefit fraudsters" as their names are known to the relevant government department which pays out the benefit.
It is much easier to hide fraud if you are rich and have accountants and lawyers to hide anything in various companies and even offshore accounts..
Playing the numbers game , exposing the little benefit fraudsters gives better headlines, showing larger numbers rather than value to the country of recovering money from a few high level fraudsters.
Just the view of a cynic.

Grantanow

Yes, more attention needs to be paid to tax evasion by the wealthy.

I know the LP are talking about only borrowing for investment but I am hoping they will have a tidy up of tax avoidance measures too. Tax systems tend to grow without any pruning of the old and no longer relevant pieces of legislation. Now would be a very good time to do that.

Yes, more attention needs to be paid to tax evasion by the wealthy.