Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

For once I totally agree with you Glorianny

I think the U.K. Government’s (of whatever colour) are always going to be pals with USA

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

I saw that item, and I was horrified that this kind of hate speech is happening within our University Societies along with mosques.

Our universities are being openly targeted to recruit what the Iranians call soft operatives truly worrying.

I would have expected something similar. Whilst we were seen as an independent and neutral nation we were not considered an enemy by Iran. They have long hated the US because of that country's interference and support for the Shah, once we aligned ourselves with them we were bound to become a target.
It is a sad fact that because we have tied ourselves so closely into US policy in the Middle East we have become a target.
I fear for all the innocent people who will be affected by this development.

Grantanow

To go back to the OP's question - it's not ideal but if the Houthis won't talk and we want to preserve trade and free passage on the seas there seems to be no other choice.

Totally agree, targeted missile strikes on their missile launchers and bases will hamper their ability to attack innocent shipping.

tickingbird

Glorianny

There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.

So what?

There are trouble makers and religious nut jobs in every corner of the earth.

If I took the time to bring you some facts and figures regarding how many Jews have been attacked and spat on by Muslims we both know they’d be much higher.

I don’t understand why you even mention it but you appear to be clutching at straws.

But the bombing and the attacks in the West Bank are killing Christians as well. So hardly just a few trouble makers.
www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/10/extinction-gaza-christians-fear-for-communitys-survival-amid-israel-war#:~:text=Only%20800%20to%201%2C000%20Christians,back%20to%20the%20first%20century.

Callistemon21

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

I saw that item, and I was horrified that this kind of hate speech is happening within our University Societies along with mosques.

Our universities are being openly targeted to recruit what the Iranians call soft operatives truly worrying.

Glorianny

There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.

So what?

There are trouble makers and religious nut jobs in every corner of the earth.

If I took the time to bring you some facts and figures regarding how many Jews have been attacked and spat on by Muslims we both know they’d be much higher.

I don’t understand why you even mention it but you appear to be clutching at straws.

To go back to the OP's question - it's not ideal but if the Houthis won't talk and we want to preserve trade and free passage on the seas there seems to be no other choice.

Katie59

The Jews fought wars and won Israel 70 yrs ago and have ruled that territory ever since, when do Muslims accept that and stop fighting.
It’s all very well other opinions calling Israel “occupied territory” and Palestinians living in refugee camps it should have ended long ago. Other countries have mixed religious populations and live peacefully, why not Israel
As for Hamas taking over Gaza vowing to destroy Israel, fighting against impossible odds, not caring how many die, how has that helped Palestinians.

The Israeli Supreme court refers to them as the Occupied Territories.
There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.
The West Bank is not Israel
www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/03/video-of-ultra-orthodox-jews-spitting-by-christians-in-jerusalem-sparks-outrage#:~:text=Outrage%20over%20Jerusalem%20video%20of%20ultra%2DOrthodox%20Jews%20spitting%20as%20Christians%20pass,-

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

The Jews fought wars and won Israel 70 yrs ago and have ruled that territory ever since, when do Muslims accept that and stop fighting.
It’s all very well other opinions calling Israel “occupied territory” and Palestinians living in refugee camps it should have ended long ago. Other countries have mixed religious populations and live peacefully, why not Israel
As for Hamas taking over Gaza vowing to destroy Israel, fighting against impossible odds, not caring how many die, how has that helped Palestinians.

M0nica

Its not what you do. It is the way that you do it.

It is now perfectly clear Gloryanny that you totally accept the principle that the ends justify the means.

This means that you accept that breaching the Geneva Conventions and deliberately attacking civilians raping women and girls, and dismembering babies and small ch;ldren, not to mention the kidnap of innocent vulnerable civilians are legitimate means for an armed force to use.

How low can anyone go?

As far as the Geneva Convention goes Israel has been in breach of Section 111 on Occupied Territories since 1967. Does that mean that they are permitted to do so, but Hamas are expected to conform to them?
The war crimes are terrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice.
But the Geneva Convention also outlaws the bombing of civilian targets and specifically protects hospitals. There is also a requirement of any aggressor that they provide food, water and medical supplies to the civilian population. Israel is still failing to do this.
Nor is Gaza the only place where Palestinians are suffering.
According to recent reporting by OHCHR, there has been a sharp increase in unnecessary and disproportionate force by Israel in the Occupied West Bank, including airstrikes, violent military tactics in law enforcement and incursions by armored personnel carriers and bulldozers sent to refugee camps which have resulted in unlawful killings and damage to civilian objects. Israeli security forces also continue to conduct daily mass arrests, with thousands of Palestinians arrested. OHCHR has reported numerous incidents of alleged torture and other ill-treatment against Palestinian detainees by Israeli forces
www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

Tickingbird
To Glorianny
You can protest about the Israeli government’s retaliation and I agree it’s a dreadful situation but why do you persist in this nonsense that Hamas are a legitimate government?
You may well ask.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Oreo

A technical occupation at best then.No Israelis were actually there, and hamas could have, had they chose to, have done well by Gazans instead of stockpiling arms and indoctrinating children and constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel and firing missiles into Israel. They are the very worst thing that could have happened to Gazans, they care nothing for the people and through their medieval barbarity have brought down destruction on Gaza.
Why you have any sympathy for hamas is a mystery.

It isn't sympathy. It's understanding.
If you live in a country occupied by a foreign power do you have the right to rebel and fight against that power or not?

If you check (as you advise us to do) you will find that the term 'Occupied' is not, in fact, correct in this instance under the Law of Occupation.

Sorry even the US refers to them as The Occupied Territories. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make
www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Oreo

A technical occupation at best then.No Israelis were actually there, and hamas could have, had they chose to, have done well by Gazans instead of stockpiling arms and indoctrinating children and constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel and firing missiles into Israel. They are the very worst thing that could have happened to Gazans, they care nothing for the people and through their medieval barbarity have brought down destruction on Gaza.
Why you have any sympathy for hamas is a mystery.

It isn't sympathy. It's understanding.
If you live in a country occupied by a foreign power do you have the right to rebel and fight against that power or not?

If you check (as you advise us to do) you will find that the term 'Occupied' is not, in fact, correct in this instance under the Law of Occupation.

I'm not defending anyone just saying that those responsible should be brought to justice and not a whole people punished for something they had no part in.

Glorianny

Some members of Hamas committed atrocities. They should be brought to justice.
How am I endorsing them?

This is why I don’t take you seriously.

It wasn’t some rogue members of this ‘political party’ with its civil servants you post about. This wasn’t a random group of Hamas fighters. This was a carefully planned operation to massacre and torture innocent civilians and peaceful ones at that. I read only the other day another account by one of the journalists that saw the footage, mostly found on bodycam retrieved from dead terrorists. He spoke of family groups bound with wire (young children included) and burned alive. They still haven’t managed to identify them all.

The order came from the top. Stop defending the indefensible.

You can protest about the Israeli government’s retaliation and I agree it’s a dreadful situation but why do you persist in this nonsense that Hamas are a legitimate government? You do yourself no favours and quite frankly invite ridicule.

Glorianny

Oreo

A technical occupation at best then.No Israelis were actually there, and hamas could have, had they chose to, have done well by Gazans instead of stockpiling arms and indoctrinating children and constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel and firing missiles into Israel. They are the very worst thing that could have happened to Gazans, they care nothing for the people and through their medieval barbarity have brought down destruction on Gaza.
Why you have any sympathy for hamas is a mystery.

It isn't sympathy. It's understanding.
If you live in a country occupied by a foreign power do you have the right to rebel and fight against that power or not?

If you check (as you advise us to do) you will find that the term 'Occupied' is not, in fact, correct in this instance under the Law of Occupation.

Its not what you do. It is the way that you do it.

It is now perfectly clear Gloryanny that you totally accept the principle that the ends justify the means.

This means that you accept that breaching the Geneva Conventions and deliberately attacking civilians raping women and girls, and dismembering babies and small ch;ldren, not to mention the kidnap of innocent vulnerable civilians are legitimate means for an armed force to use.

How low can anyone go?

If you are the legitimate government of Gaza as they say they are, then you go down the political route to change things, you stop firing missiles at Israel and stop peddling hate and you definitely don’t send fighters to murder rape and maim, tie up kids and burn them, you don’t torture young men and women and you don’t take hundreds of hostages including old people women and children.You definitely don’t target civilians and then sit back and wait for Israel to fight back when you know damn well what will happen to the people in Gaza.

Oreo

A technical occupation at best then.No Israelis were actually there, and hamas could have, had they chose to, have done well by Gazans instead of stockpiling arms and indoctrinating children and constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel and firing missiles into Israel. They are the very worst thing that could have happened to Gazans, they care nothing for the people and through their medieval barbarity have brought down destruction on Gaza.
Why you have any sympathy for hamas is a mystery.

It isn't sympathy. It's understanding.
If you live in a country occupied by a foreign power do you have the right to rebel and fight against that power or not?

A technical occupation at best then.No Israelis were actually there, and hamas could have, had they chose to, have done well by Gazans instead of stockpiling arms and indoctrinating children and constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel and firing missiles into Israel. They are the very worst thing that could have happened to Gazans, they care nothing for the people and through their medieval barbarity have brought down destruction on Gaza.
Why you have any sympathy for hamas is a mystery.

Israel has been occupying the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, which collectively constitute the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT), since 1967.

Contrary to what the Israeli government claims, Israel’s withdrawal of its ground forces from Gaza in 2005 did not end its occupation of Gaza.

That is because, ever since, Israel has maintained effective control over Gaza, including its territorial waters and airspace, the movement of people and goods, except at Gaza’s border with Egypt, and the infrastructure upon which Gaza relies, rendering the Strip an open-air prison.

Under IHL, Israel is required, as the occupying power, to make sure that the basic needs of the population of Gaza, such as food and water, are met.

International human rights law also governs the legal duties of the Israeli authorities towards the population of the OPT, especially given the long duration of the occupation

It has long been recognised that the old "boots on the ground" concept of occupation fails to take account of technological advances and that Israel's blockade of Gaza constitutes under IHL an occupation.

Glorianny

maddyone

Murder - Hamas are guilty
Torture - Hamas are guilty
Brutality - Hamas are guilty
Discrimination on basis of race - Hamas are guilty
Discrimination on basis of nationality - Hamas are guilty
Discrimination on basis of religion - Hamas are guilty
Discrimination on basis of political opinion - Hamas are guilty

So Hamas committed war crimes on seven counts on 7/10

All of those are crimes which Israel has been guilty of since it occupied Palestinian land.
It has had numerous UN resolutions passed against it all of which it has refused to comply with.
It was described by Amnesty International as an apartheid state.
How can you expect one organisation to comply with International law when its enemy obviously doesn't?
Hamas are probably guilty and the perpetrators if they can be found should be arrested and brought to trial.
But so should the government of Israel which can easily be identified and brought to justice.
I've asked this question many times and never get an answer. Should a people submit to occupation or do they have a right to resist the oppressor?

First of all, you say ‘hamas are probably guilty, so there is doubt in your mind despite it being a fact and they have taken great pride in their barbarity.
Secondly, in answer to your question in the last paragraph, Gaza was not under occupation.Gaza had so much money thrown at it, that the government there, hamas in this case, a terrorist organisation that the Gazans unfortunately first voted
for, could have made it a so much better place to live, but chose not to do that.
Your blind acceptance of anything that happens there, or thinking hamas are some sort of saviours of Palestinians in general is pitiful.Just as you see the Houthis as some sort of saviours in Yemen instead of a terrorist group formed from the Houthi tribe who are out for themselves 100%.

“The impact of seeing children in that much pain and not having the equipment, medicines to treat them or alleviate pain is too much, even for experienced professionals. Even in a war zone, the sights and sounds of a young child mutilated by bomb cannot be reconciled, let alone understood, within the bounds of humanity.”

– Jason Lee, Save the Children’s Country Director for the Occupied Palestinian Territory

Freshair

All HAMAS are terrorists, this is a fact. They all think the same, they are all scum of the earth and Israel needs to do everything in their power to destroy them. Funny how the other Arab countries aren't getting involved, with all their wealth and influence you would think they'd help in some way. I hope everyone is frightened of Israel and Israel annihilate everyone associated with HAMAS, that is the only way to end this war. Innocent people will be injured and killed but Israel have no choice than to carry on. There is no alternative and no negotiating will bring it to an end

Even if you think that how do you imagine this fulfills that purpose. I'd post one of the pictures but I know it would distress many people. But if you imagine this is damaging Hamas you need to look. These children will recruit for Hamas. I'm shocked. I'm upset. But for many that will exhibit itself as anger and they will seek revenge. How anyone imagines this will ensure the safety of Israel I don't know.
www.unocha.org/news/gaza-children-under-attack#:~:text=Since%207%20October%2C%20nearly%201.9,

All HAMAS are terrorists, this is a fact. They all think the same, they are all scum of the earth and Israel needs to do everything in their power to destroy them. Funny how the other Arab countries aren't getting involved, with all their wealth and influence you would think they'd help in some way. I hope everyone is frightened of Israel and Israel annihilate everyone associated with HAMAS, that is the only way to end this war. Innocent people will be injured and killed but Israel have no choice than to carry on. There is no alternative and no negotiating will bring it to an end