Migrants are keeping the NHS afloat not drowning it!

The people arriving on boats are a completely different situation than those who arrive legally to work in the NHS. Therefore they must be dealt with separately and under different rules.
I hate hearing that people who are here legally and working legally are being exposed to racism by ignorant people. Shame on them.
I was also treated and looked after by wonderful caring staff from abroad when I was in hospital with Covid, and also my mother in her care home. I had good relationships with mum’s carers, both British and foreign, and my absolute favourite was a lovely Polish girl.

I’m afraid that for asylum seekers there is also the additional problem of criminal record checks. People fleeing unstable or war torn countries are unlikely to be able to obtain criminal record clearance from their country of origin and in my opinion that is equally important as proof of qualifications when working with vulnerable people.

Germanshepherdsmum

Of course I don’t. But if someone has no proof of identity or qualification and their alleged country of origin has no records, or is unwilling to cooperate, just how much time and money do you suggest this country should invest in their acquisition of UK qualifications?

If someone destroys their papers or, for whatever reason, has no proof of qualifications then of course they are not able to take on any job except unskilled work.

However, if a person has the intellectual capacity to gain good qualifications in one country they don't suddenly lose that capacity because they are in another.
Of course they don't.

However, to work in a skilled job or a profession they will need to have the same qualifications as any other candidate. How to obtain those qualifications? Should they receive funding which is not available to other students?

My husband had many spells in one of our local hospitals, in an area that has a high level of immigration. The treatment he had was exemplary from all the staff, who were of many nationalities. What I did notice on my travels round the wards was the surprisingly low level of immigrant patients. The local population seemed to be giving the NHS far more than they were taking from it.

Of course I don’t. But if someone has no proof of identity or qualification and their alleged country of origin has no records, or is unwilling to cooperate, just how much time and money do you suggest this country should invest in their acquisition of UK qualifications?

Germanshepherdsmum

How do they prove that they have the skills or qualifications that they claim? Without proof of qualifications what is a potential employer to do? Do you not understand the problem of proof?

What a very patronising comment, of course I understand about the problem of proof. I also understand the problem of the recognition of foreign qualifications even when refugees have documentary proof. However, if a person has the intellectual capacity to gain good qualifications in one country they don't suddenly lose that capacity because they are in another. There may be a language difficulty but that is often easily overcome. You seem to think anyone who is a refugee or asylum seeker has some sort of mental incapacity. Let me assure you, they most certainly don't.

growstuff

That's one, not numerous.

That wasn’t in reply to you, it was in addition to my post.

Yes, numerous.

My son lived with a Philipino woman and she said you can buy any qualification out there on most street corners and they look totally genuine.

That's one, not numerous.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/zholia-alemi-fake-psychiatrist-nhs-norfolk-suffolk-a9018571.html

Primrose53

BlueBelle

They wouldn’t be passed to work in the NHS if they didn’t have the correct qualifications GSM all that is being said on here is that Uk is totally missing a trick as many potential good high quality workers are being missed because of stupid Tory inefficiency in assessing in a reasonable time limit
Unfortunately Freya you come across as racist perhaps you aren’t but it’s how you come across

Don’t you believe it! There have been numerous cases of people from other countries using bogus qualifications.

There was a woman claiming to be a psychiatrist or psychologist working in the NHS in our county for YEARS before she was found out and I believe sent to prison. I think she was only found out when one of her patients killed himself after treatment from her.

Numerous? Really?

WonderfulLife Presumably the people making the mistakes were nurses. You should have complained directly to the hospital.

BlueBelle

They wouldn’t be passed to work in the NHS if they didn’t have the correct qualifications GSM all that is being said on here is that Uk is totally missing a trick as many potential good high quality workers are being missed because of stupid Tory inefficiency in assessing in a reasonable time limit
Unfortunately Freya you come across as racist perhaps you aren’t but it’s how you come across

Don’t you believe it! There have been numerous cases of people from other countries using bogus qualifications.

There was a woman claiming to be a psychiatrist or psychologist working in the NHS in our county for YEARS before she was found out and I believe sent to prison. I think she was only found out when one of her patients killed himself after treatment from her.

We had terrible problems with immigrant workers when my late husband was in hospital. I had to start getting there for 10 in the morning and staying until 11 at night because of all the mistakes they were making. Giving him the wrong medication as they had got his name mixed up with another patient. Blood test being taken meant for another person. Enemas being prescribed which was for another patient. My husband was terrified of being on his own and funnily enough the staff never asked me why I was staying so long during the day and never asked me to leave.

I stood in the middle of the ward and shouted for God's sake, someone put his name above his bed. I reported it to the registrars that came round every day and all they said, oh dear, and just scratched the treatment off his chart. If I had not been there he would have had procedures meant for another patient. I checked his chart every morning when I went in but sometimes found his chart on another persons bed and that patients chart on my husbands bed.

As far as I am concerned, immigrants who can not speak the Kings English nor read notes should be nowhere near a patient. You are okay if you are of sound mind and can speak up for yourself but my husband was terminally ill and had not a clue what was going on.

I complained to the NHS and never received a reply, my husband then died so I swore I would never, ever go into hospital, I would rather be at home and suffer in silence.

Germanshepherdsmum

How do they prove that they have the skills or qualifications that they claim? Without proof of qualifications what is a potential employer to do? Do you not understand the problem of proof?

A healthcare assistant doesn't need to prove skills or qualifications. Appointment would depend on an interview and no doubt there would be a probationary period and encouragement to take qualifications.

How do they prove that they have the skills or qualifications that they claim? Without proof of qualifications what is a potential employer to do? Do you not understand the problem of proof?

Some skills and professions aren't transferable, though, eg law.
We know a lawyer from Ukraine who is working two jobs, as a cleaner and in hospitality.

Germanshepherdsmum

If immigrants can’t prove that they have medical qualifications which, with passing further exams, will qualify them to undertake clinical work, what vacancies exist in the NHS for them to fill other than possibly porters and cleaners? Do we not have sufficient UK born people to fill such positions?

You seem to have a rather strange idea about people from other countries. Even in war torn countries there are people with all sorts of skills. Afghanistan, where many of the asylum seekers come from, had good schools and excellent universities, the one in Kabul offered a huge range of courses that would not be dissimilar to those offered in a British university. Women, in particular, where able to train in all sorts of professions including medicine etc. and they did. Sadly, now with return of the Taliban many live in fear of the Taliban and are seeking asylum. The UK failed to get many deserving people out and they are currently stuck in Pakistan or trying to find other routes out. Of course there are people with few skills because they have lacked the opportunities that we take for granted but to imply that asylum seekers are only capable of low level jobs is I'm afraid, total rubbish and shows a lack of understanding of what causes people to flee their homes to seek sanctuary in a foreign country.

Germanshepherdsmum

If immigrants can’t prove that they have medical qualifications which, with passing further exams, will qualify them to undertake clinical work, what vacancies exist in the NHS for them to fill other than possibly porters and cleaners? Do we not have sufficient UK born people to fill such positions?

Healthcare assistant.

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/healthcare-support-worker/roles-healthcare-support-worker/healthcare-assistant

No set entry requirement.

My recent stay in hospital

Surgeon/consultant - from Ghana
Assistant surgeon - not sure, but a Muslim lady with Middle Eastern accent
Anaesthetist - Australian
Nurses - varied including British and European.

An excellent, professional and competent team. I can’t speak highly enough.

BlueBelle

They wouldn’t be passed to work in the NHS if they didn’t have the correct qualifications GSM all that is being said on here is that Uk is totally missing a trick as many potential good high quality workers are being missed because of stupid Tory inefficiency in assessing in a reasonable time limit
Unfortunately Freya you come across as racist perhaps you aren’t but it’s how you come across

Don't like the truth some people.
I'm not sure what truth Freya means, Bluebelle

I hope Freya never needs to receive intensive care treatment in a top hospital, but, if she does, there might be an extremely well-qualified nurse looking after her. Of course, her Aussie twang might be rather incomprehensible.

Yesterday DH was extremely well looked after by a Filipino nurse practitioner whose English was very good.

If immigrants can’t prove that they have medical qualifications which, with passing further exams, will qualify them to undertake clinical work, what vacancies exist in the NHS for them to fill other than possibly porters and cleaners? Do we not have sufficient UK born people to fill such positions?

They wouldn’t be passed to work in the NHS if they didn’t have the correct qualifications GSM all that is being said on here is that Uk is totally missing a trick as many potential good high quality workers are being missed because of stupid Tory inefficiency in assessing in a reasonable time limit
Unfortunately Freya you come across as racist perhaps you aren’t but it’s how you come across

Germanshepherdsmum

None of what you say proves that they have medical qualifications, and even if they did and could prove that to be so, they would have to undertake further exams before being allowed to work in a healthcare setting. I am not debating whether or not they are genuine refugees, I am talking about their ability to work in healthcare in the UK.

The NHS requires people in lots of different capacities, not just as doctors and nurses. They all contribute to the NHS.

Callistemon21

I would have thought a degree from an Australian University plus years working in an ICU in a top Australian University Hospital would have allowed an immigrant, as you call them, to work in a higher capacity than an HCA.

As for the reference to wouldn't let look after my cat, if I had one, that is extremely rude.

I will say no more.

Don't like the truth some people.

None of what you say proves that they have medical qualifications, and even if they did and could prove that to be so, they would have to undertake further exams before being allowed to work in a healthcare setting. I am not debating whether or not they are genuine refugees, I am talking about their ability to work in healthcare in the UK.