Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

It's a shame we can't talk about social justice, equality, etc, without employing that weaponised word, "woke" which now appears to have replaced the much over-used mantra, political-correctness gorn mad.

Political pundits and the media have grabbed it like a rugby spheriod and run with it down the field, lobbing it to execute a drop goal against the target du jour.

I won't use it; not to describe myself, others - nor play along with the anti or pro brigades. I hope it drops out of common currency and we can start talking about social justice, equality, privilege, wealth distribution, opportunities, etc, etc, in a rational and balanced way.

It was suggested to me about a week ago by a visiting nurse who I know well enough to chat with, half-jokingly, that I was "quite woke". Good Lord, all I'd said was that supermarket delivery drivers should be given more time with each customer to unpack the goods now that they no longer come in plastic bags.

I was expecting a half-interested, "yeah, good idea, it would be helpful" kind of reply.

Drat the word.

Hmm. I'm in two minds.
I don't think weird is necessarily a bad thing if it just means unusual, different crazy ! Is there any harm in her saying what she thinks, (within reason), if she truly believes it? KB is certainly confident enough to make big claims. She shows by her actions that she supports what she believes in, and it seems to work for her school.
I would be interested to meet her, (but I wouldn't like to be either a teacher, a pupil, or a parent at her school).

Joseann

MaizieD

How strange, Joseann. I know she isn't at all approving of 'progressive' education, but what is 'woke' about private schools

Not sure Maizie, but she had a rant ...... cheers below.
I don't think she understands independent schools.

I haven’t even mentioned the cultural madness going on in private schools!

Oh my. It is so bad.

Not all of them- clearly.

But the closer to London you get, and the more prestigious the school, the more woke it is…

All I can do is ring the alarm bell!

😱😱😱

She is a bit weird, isn't she...

*see below .... not cheers?

MaizieD

How strange, Joseann. I know she isn't at all approving of 'progressive' education, but what is 'woke' about private schools

Not sure Maizie, but she had a rant ...... cheers below.
I don't think she understands independent schools.

I haven’t even mentioned the cultural madness going on in private schools!

Oh my. It is so bad.

Not all of them- clearly.

But the closer to London you get, and the more prestigious the school, the more woke it is…

All I can do is ring the alarm bell!

growstuff

Could anybody point out where I wrote "right wing"?

On which side of the political spectrum are the "anti-woke brigade"?

And I am challenging the interpretation of many of the posters on this thread.

How strange, Joseann. I know she isn't at all approving of 'progressive' education, but what is 'woke' about private schools

growstuff

Dickens

MaizieD

Dickens

What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.

MaizieD

It is not the factual nature of the comment I am challenging - it is the whole tone of growstuff's comments which imply that KB and those who support her stance on this are of the Right-Wing-Anti-Woke brigade.

Aaaah.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I admit was quite surprised to find Polly Toynbee supporting Birbalsingh's stance in the Guardian the other day. Though I think it was more because of her belief that all state schools should be secular.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I concede, in general.

However growstuff did, in fact, say...

I actually think Birbalsingh has made this a "wedge" issue because she knows she'll be supported by the anti-woke brigade.

There aren't many ways you can misinterpret that comment.

It wasn't intended to be misinterpreted. Or am I not entitled to an opinion?

It wasn't intended to be misinterpreted. Or am I not entitled to an opinion? hmm

Do you not understand the point I was making to MaizieD?

She politely reminded me that interpreting people's comments is a difficult concept (obviously, because it's quite easy to get hold of the wrong end of the stick when you are simply looking at the written word).

... so I pointed out your comment which, as you have confirmed, is not open to any alternative interpretation.

And, has anyone suggested you are not entitled to an opinion?

I am challenging it, not attempting to stifle it, for heaven's sake.

I have a feeling KB did attack private schools for being "woke", the wokest of all I think she said.
Hackles up from me!!!

It was an odd comment.

Just because someone feels offended or upset and expresses that doesn't mean they're at the start of a slippery slope to terrorism.

However, if the annoyance is expressed by bullying, criminal damage, threats of violence including stabbing, that is a worrying escalation.

growstuff

Could anybody point out where I wrote "right wing"?

PS. Birbalsingh would be proud of being called "anti-woke". That's what her whole raison d'être is about.

PS. Birbalsingh would be proud of being called "anti-woke". That's what her whole raison d'être is about.

Has she said that? Can you give the link to an interview or article she's written that says that? Otherwise I shall assume this statement is as inaccurate as the school times that Glorianny claimed in support of her various complaints.

Joseann

Unless I am reading it out of context, that quoted post sounds like someone who once again was trying to say what they think other posters are thinking??
(I'm guessing the Muslim terrorists was being discussed?)

If you're referring to Callistemon's quote about a 'sliding scale' I can see, from the reference to Charlie Hebdo, where the poster's thinking was coming from. Taking offence at perceived religious affront had the 'potential' , in the hands of an influential/charismatic manipulative individual, to escalate to violence against the offender.

I don't think it was suggesting that offended Jews and Christians would go and bomb Greggs.

growstuff

Joseann

Unless I am reading it out of context, that quoted post sounds like someone who once again was trying to say what they think other posters are thinking??
(I'm guessing the Muslim terrorists was being discussed?)

Well, I haven't mentioned or even responded to any post about Muslim terrorists. I have commented on the way Ms Birbalsingh has responded to the situation. My opinion is that she's not being entirely truthful and her arguments are flawed.

I think the post must be before my time, so I have no idea. (Hebdo was 2015).

In what way exactly do you see KB as untruthful?

the bombers of Charlie Hebdo?
Erm correct me if I'm wrong, but were there bombers in Charlie Hebdo attack? I thought it was all guns and shooting?
Don't worry, it's not relevant to this thread!

Joseann

Unless I am reading it out of context, that quoted post sounds like someone who once again was trying to say what they think other posters are thinking??
(I'm guessing the Muslim terrorists was being discussed?)

Well, I haven't mentioned or even responded to any post about Muslim terrorists. I have commented on the way Ms Birbalsingh has responded to the situation. My opinion is that she's not being entirely truthful and her arguments are flawed.

Could anybody point out where I wrote "right wing"?

PS. Birbalsingh would be proud of being called "anti-woke". That's what her whole raison d'être is about.

Unless I am reading it out of context, that quoted post sounds like someone who once again was trying to say what they think other posters are thinking??
(I'm guessing the Muslim terrorists was being discussed?)

Dickens

MaizieD

Dickens

What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.

MaizieD

It is not the factual nature of the comment I am challenging - it is the whole tone of growstuff's comments which imply that KB and those who support her stance on this are of the Right-Wing-Anti-Woke brigade.

Aaaah.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I admit was quite surprised to find Polly Toynbee supporting Birbalsingh's stance in the Guardian the other day. Though I think it was more because of her belief that all state schools should be secular.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I concede, in general.

However growstuff did, in fact, say...

I actually think Birbalsingh has made this a "wedge" issue because she knows she'll be supported by the anti-woke brigade.

There aren't many ways you can misinterpret that comment.

It wasn't intended to be misinterpreted. Or am I not entitled to an opinion?

That claim was in itself truly offensive.

The term "woke" to some people is subjective and fluid.

It seems woke means it is wrong to criticise religions and religious practices?

In which case, why do those who claim to be woke on GN scoff at Christianity and Judaism?

I remember a thread from a few years ago where Christians were upset because Gregg's had replaced Baby Jesus with a sausage roll in the crib. As Jesus was a Jew then yes that was offensive on more than one level. But one poster claimed that taking Christians taking offence were wrong:

I wonder if those who are so offended realise that they are actually at the start of a sliding scale which escalates into the actions of the bombers of Charlie Hebdo? Of course they condemn these actions but in expressing such offence they are taking one step along the same road. It's a road that has led in the past to all sorts of conflict.

Surely woke means religious tolerance for all?

MaizieD

Dickens

What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.

MaizieD

It is not the factual nature of the comment I am challenging - it is the whole tone of growstuff's comments which imply that KB and those who support her stance on this are of the Right-Wing-Anti-Woke brigade.

Aaaah.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I admit was quite surprised to find Polly Toynbee supporting Birbalsingh's stance in the Guardian the other day. Though I think it was more because of her belief that all state schools should be secular.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I concede, in general.

However growstuff did, in fact, say...

I actually think Birbalsingh has made this a "wedge" issue because she knows she'll be supported by the anti-woke brigade.

There aren't many ways you can misinterpret that comment.

On a serious note, don't most Church schools actually draw on a far more diverse population in the cultural sense than many secular schools in the community? And in a wider economic sense too?

Of course there are alternatives to Friday fish on the school menu. I've just ordered my Fish gougon, chips and peas for tomorrow at school. Alternatives were Cheese Potato Quesidilla or Chicken Curry, or the Salad Bar!

I must ask my Jehovah's Witness and Methodist neighbours ...)

That made me smile! DH's Methodist (could have been Welsh Baptist) ancestors were missionaries, trying to bring Jehovah's Witnesses back to the true faith.

I wonder if they ate fish on Fridays?