Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

Glorianny

Rosie51

Glorianny

Dickens

The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.

A Jewish family I worked for always ate fish on Friday... Shabbat (sabbath) begins on a Friday. I know, because they invited me to eat with them... but it's usually eaten in the evening.

Shabbat begins at sunset on a Friday, some Jewish children need to leave school early in the winter

Maybe that's why the school closes by 2.15 every Friday? Did you miss that when you read the school documents?

Yes I missed that.
So they actually accommodate Jewish students.
Lets see fish on a Friday for RCs, early finish on a Friday for Jewish students. Now which major religion isn't being accommodated??

Friday is an important day for Muslims too.

One of my Muslim colleagues always had Fridays off.

Glorianny

Joseann

And if school finishes at 3.15 pm, they still have nearly 40 minutes to get home (London) on even the shortest day of term in December?

The Michaela school finishes at 5pm.
Which may be another reason parents choose it. If you are working no childcare costs.

Where does it say it finishes at 5pm, I see it finishing at 3.15 except on Friday when it's 2.15? Perhaps you could post a link to back up this claim? The school provides 35hours 40minutes in a typical week 3+ hours more than the average school. No wonder they, like our local secondary schools have an early finish on Fridays. It may just be fortunate for the probably very small number of Jewish pupils.

You really are determined to criticise Michaela and to assume it's anti-muslim in its practices. KB's own grandmother was Muslim so I think that's unlikely. I note not one squeak out of you about the Hindu children or the Jehovah Witness children and the compromises they have to make or any Christian compromises. It's crystal clear that you move the goalposts constantly every time your argument is shown to be faulty. And that you studiously avoid as many questions that poke holes in your arguments as possible. I thought you wanted a prayer room for all religions and for meditation for children of no faith. Ever since that initial argument you keep saying they only need room for 30 Muslim pupils. Which is it? Exclusively for 30 Muslim children, or a room available to any number of children that want it?

As for the lunchtime arrangements all you can do is criticise the serving of fish on Friday? No commendation of the 'family' setting with children learning to socialise and serve each other. You said yourself it was no longer a requirement for RC children. Do you think it's possible that it's because most religions permit the eating of fish so Muslims, Hindus, Christians (of any denomination) can all share the meal. Vegans or vegetarians wouldn't but they cater for allergies and other dietary restrictions so that wouldn't be a problem.

I thought I read it was a vegetarian school.
Who is being discriminated against in that case?

Glorianny

Yes I missed that.
So they actually accommodate Jewish students.
Lets see fish on a Friday for RCs, early finish on a Friday for Jewish students. Now which major religion isn't being accommodated??

Perhaps it's not the religion that isn't being accommodated - more the methods used by some to achieve such an accommodation? Are they the sole representatives of their religion which, as pointed out earlier, can be diverse in its interpretation?

And quite a few schools finish early on Friday, the day is shortened by 1 or 2 hours.

^The Michaela school finishes at 5pm.
Which may be another reason parents choose it. If you are working no childcare costs.^
Why would children aged 12+ need childcare? Surely they can be at home alone for an hour or so. Most older kids who do after-school clubs and activities do so because they are interested in them, not because they need childminding.

Rosie51

Glorianny

Dickens

The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.

A Jewish family I worked for always ate fish on Friday... Shabbat (sabbath) begins on a Friday. I know, because they invited me to eat with them... but it's usually eaten in the evening.

Shabbat begins at sunset on a Friday, some Jewish children need to leave school early in the winter

Maybe that's why the school closes by 2.15 every Friday? Did you miss that when you read the school documents?

Yes I missed that.
So they actually accommodate Jewish students.
Lets see fish on a Friday for RCs, early finish on a Friday for Jewish students. Now which major religion isn't being accommodated??

Joseann

And if school finishes at 3.15 pm, they still have nearly 40 minutes to get home (London) on even the shortest day of term in December?

The Michaela school finishes at 5pm.
Which may be another reason parents choose it. If you are working no childcare costs.

Several of our local schools (primary & senior) finish at 2.15pm on a Friday.

It’s really helpful when we are picking up from two different schools.

Grrr. Typos.

Oooer, thanks Rosie51. I fir one am happy to be put right. Better go to Specsacers!

Glorianny

Dickens

The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.

A Jewish family I worked for always ate fish on Friday... Shabbat (sabbath) begins on a Friday. I know, because they invited me to eat with them... but it's usually eaten in the evening.

Shabbat begins at sunset on a Friday, some Jewish children need to leave school early in the winter

Maybe that's why the school closes by 2.15 every Friday? Did you miss that when you read the school documents?

And if school finishes at 3.15 pm, they still have nearly 40 minutes to get home (London) on even the shortest day of term in December?

Shabbat begins at sunset on a Friday, some Jewish children need to leave school early in the winter

Jewish children attending a multi cultural school with children of various faiths are highly unlikely to be observant.

Dickens

^The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".^
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.

A Jewish family I worked for always ate fish on Friday... Shabbat (sabbath) begins on a Friday. I know, because they invited me to eat with them... but it's usually eaten in the evening.

Shabbat begins at sunset on a Friday, some Jewish children need to leave school early in the winter

tickingbird

Glorianny
The bullying is awful and should have been. dealt with, but religious bullying is no different to any other form of bullying. It has to be dealt with.
The brick through the window is a police matter.

If the bullying and intimidation is being orchestrated by forces outside the school what do you suggest? It really isn’t as simple as schoolyard bullying.

Then it is a police matter.

Dickens

Glorianny

There is absolutely nothing about a secular requirement or there being no space to pray.

Technically, it is not possible for a State school to be genuinely secular, as well you know, so she can't make secularism a "requirement". The school could, strictly speaking, be penalised because it doesn't hold any form of collective worship.

KB is trying to encourage an inclusive, secular ethos because she believes that is the way that multi-culturalism is best served in her school in the interests of all her students. Whether you agree with the way she does it or not, that is the point.

I haven't read the all school's policies, but KB has, in one of her many interviews, said that parents (whether she means all or just those that mention it, I don't know)... are told that there is no prayer room. And I doubt that this is something she only tells Muslim parents - prayer is an integral part of other religions - as is the chanting of mantras in Hinduism, etc, etc. As she said (in an interview), "The school has always been clear to prospective parents and pupils that the restrictive building and prohibition against pupils being left unsupervised means it cannot have a prayer room."

You appear to want this to be seen as an anti-Muslim, Islamophobic, move. With the threats, bomb hoax, racial harassment of a teacher, etc - none of us know all the details or who was involved in this abuse directed at the school, or if some of the abuse was also aimed at Muslim pupils, she instituted the ban on prayer to restore order to the school. You may disapprove - but I think the accusations of discrimination against Muslims is a low tactic.

If she can say that in an interview why wouldn't it be in the school information? It's a simple enough thing to put.

I simply question information that is detailed enough to say "fish on Friday" but can't put a sentence in about a prayer room.
Had it been in the information the parents probably wouldn't be bringing this action.

Glorianny
The bullying is awful and should have been. dealt with, but religious bullying is no different to any other form of bullying. It has to be dealt with.
The brick through the window is a police matter.

If the bullying and intimidation is being orchestrated by forces outside the school what do you suggest? It really isn’t as simple as schoolyard bullying.

The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.

A Jewish family I worked for always ate fish on Friday... Shabbat (sabbath) begins on a Friday. I know, because they invited me to eat with them... but it's usually eaten in the evening.

tickingbird

There’s been a lot of intimidation and bullying. Other Muslim children being bullied into wearing the hijab and when eating during Ramadan they have been subjected to intimidation. There have been death threats, a bomb threat and teachers have been threatened. One teacher had a brick through her window at home.

It’s radical Islam at work again and this pupil is just a pawn being used by more sinister forces.

I saw the headteacher being interviewed last night and she is a very brave lady. Her school is exceptional and she really cares about the children and her staff. It’s dreadful what’s happening.

The bullying is awful and should have been. dealt with, but religious bullying is no different to any other form of bullying. It has to be dealt with.
The brick through the window is a police matter.

I too saw the interview,yes a very brave lady. One member of teaching staff is black, she is being called a ‘N’, a monkey

Glorianny

There is absolutely nothing about a secular requirement or there being no space to pray.

Technically, it is not possible for a State school to be genuinely secular, as well you know, so she can't make secularism a "requirement". The school could, strictly speaking, be penalised because it doesn't hold any form of collective worship.

KB is trying to encourage an inclusive, secular ethos because she believes that is the way that multi-culturalism is best served in her school in the interests of all her students. Whether you agree with the way she does it or not, that is the point.

I haven't read the all school's policies, but KB has, in one of her many interviews, said that parents (whether she means all or just those that mention it, I don't know)... are told that there is no prayer room. And I doubt that this is something she only tells Muslim parents - prayer is an integral part of other religions - as is the chanting of mantras in Hinduism, etc, etc. As she said (in an interview), "The school has always been clear to prospective parents and pupils that the restrictive building and prohibition against pupils being left unsupervised means it cannot have a prayer room."

You appear to want this to be seen as an anti-Muslim, Islamophobic, move. With the threats, bomb hoax, racial harassment of a teacher, etc - none of us know all the details or who was involved in this abuse directed at the school, or if some of the abuse was also aimed at Muslim pupils, she instituted the ban on prayer to restore order to the school. You may disapprove - but I think the accusations of discrimination against Muslims is a low tactic.

There’s been a lot of intimidation and bullying. Other Muslim children being bullied into wearing the hijab and when eating during Ramadan they have been subjected to intimidation. There have been death threats, a bomb threat and teachers have been threatened. One teacher had a brick through her window at home.

It’s radical Islam at work again and this pupil is just a pawn being used by more sinister forces.

I saw the headteacher being interviewed last night and she is a very brave lady. Her school is exceptional and she really cares about the children and her staff. It’s dreadful what’s happening.

I dont understand. I've yet to see a school's website or brochure which states:
We don't have a prayer room
We don't have a chapel
We don't have an all weather football pitch
Surely in order to sell a school, you highlight the positives?

Glorianny If KB puts into the school policy document that the school does not provide a prayer room would that satisfy you?
Interestingly school policy states For a day set aside exclusively for religious observance, pupils will be granted one day of authorised absence per religious festival, up to a maximum of three days per academic year.
Time taken beyond this will not be authorised. which seems quite accommodating.

The fact that not all Muslims need to pray in the daytime would be something in favour of a prayer room, as not all Muslim pupils would use it, so it could be small. Are you indicating this room would be for the exclusive use of Muslims, which would be very discriminatory and divisive? What if the numbers grew rapidly because either more Muslims wished to pray, or pupils of other faiths or none also wanted to use it? In a school of 350 Muslims and 350 "other faiths and none" it's possible numbers might escalate.

Dickens

^But if that is the case then the admissions policy should clearly state that. Church schools set out their policies.^ Usually, practising members of the relevant faith, then those of the faith who are baptised into it, then practising members of other religions
If the school wanted people who were not practising a religion they should say so.
It does say the main meal is vegetarian.
It doesn't say prayer isn't allowed.

Glorianny

"All Muslims look for guidance in the Qur’an and believe in the prophecy of Muhammad, but other than these two elements they show great variation."

..."with almost 2 billion members spread around the world, adding up to one of every four humans, Muslims show a great variation amongst themselves. Muslim practices vary on the basis of denomination, school of thought, national and ethnic context and religiosity."

"Muslim communities have disagreements and contradictions amongst themselves on a number of issues of principle and practice. Sometimes even slight moderation might cause Muslims to be targeted by more radical elements within the same school of interpretation. The original Islamic community under Muhammad showed great variation."

Esra Özyürek
The Sultan Qaboos Professor of Abrahamic Faiths and Shared Values and also the Director of the Cambridge Interfaith Programme at the Divinity Faculty, University of Cambridge.

Again, Muslim practices vary on the basis of denomination, school of thought, national and ethnic context and religiosity."

... can you not see that to cater for the wide variation of practices within this faith, coupled with all the other faiths whose adherents might also have their own 'variations' presents a problem for a multi-cultural school which has been raised out of an old office building with limited space; headed by a woman who wants everyone to make a personal sacrifice in the interests of the whole.

I am not advocating for KB - Michaela would not be my choice of school - I'm just attempting to point out the logic of her 'argument' in opposition to your accusations of discrimination.

Sorry no.
If she had wanted this to be school policy she could easily have set out those requirements in the information.
The information about mealtimes is very detailed. Including the rather odd (in my opinion) information that although the food is vegetarian the school serves "traditional fish on a Friday".
A requirement that I thought even RCs had dropped.
There is absolutely nothing about a secular requirement or there being no space to pray.
The fact that not all Muslims need to pray in the daytime would be something in favour of a prayer room, as not all Muslim pupils would use it, so it could be small.