Conscription

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

You're right; it's not funny at all. Why would you think that a working life of, in my case 50+ years, needs to be "marked" by anything other than the chance to put our feet up and do exactly what we want? "Appropriate community work" has often been done in addition to contributing to the economy by working full time and can, if one so chooses, continue when one has retired. If you want conscription "Appropriate community workers" may I respectfully suggest that you firstly cast your net amongst those who have had a lifetime of contributing neither fiscally nor practically. You won't have to look too far; there's plenty of them.

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

Well as both DH and I have been active in the Charity sector for over 40 years whilst building up a (so far) successful SME and raising 5 children then straight into childcare for 8 GC, I would not be interested in enforced volunteering

I agree with Pammiel it would be political suicide and never get through the H of C’s let alone the H of L’s.

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

I think any government trying to introduce such a thing wou;d be committing political suicide.

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

I don't know if I've misunderstood this but I don't think you can always equate "people who don't work" with non-taxpayers. I no longer do paid work, after 45 years of it, because I have retired from work but I am a lifelong and continuing UK Taxpayer.
Agree nothing wrong with throwing ideas out....
Hoping that neither my nephews nor my niece will have to see combat.......

Some here would have us work til we drop, I think, reading some of these posts. Think again.

Some quite flippant comments on here! I think if we were threatened with invasion, bombing, and all that that involves, the population would fight, as they have before. Maybe I am wrong, in which case we would have to accept whatever fate has in store for us and put up with it, as Europe did in WW2. Except there may not be anyone to fight for, and liberate us.

Crikey, I am fast approaching 70 and would not appreciate having to work a 4 day week.
I worked up to age 67, have always and continue to be involved in voluntary efforts for my village.
Just put me down for some sock knitting!

winterwhite I do hope you are joking?

Thank you, Doodledog, for enlarging on the idea I threw out.

What I had in mind for age 70 would take years to set up and require a certain lead-in time. It would be for one year with (say) a 4 day week. Not voluntary but remunerated in bands roughly according to previous earnings with more demanding work expected of higher earners. Think what could then be achieved working alongside the voluntary sector, and with the hope that many would carry on as volunteers after their year.

AGAA4

I think many of us have worked and contributed voluntarily after retirement. I looked after my grandchildren so my daughter could work as a teacher till I was 73. I know there are many grans who do likewise. It is a form of national service but it should only ever be voluntary.

There could be exemptions for those who have already 'served' in various capacities. I don't think that anything involving working with vulnerable people (including children) should involve any degree of coercion, though. Maybe none of it should - I still don't know what I think.

I just feel that in a complex society like ours, nobody should get a 'free ride', and that a tailored (and non-military) scheme could have a lot of benefits if administered benignly in the right hands. In the wrong hands, however, there is potential for it to do a lot of harm.

Doodledog
I think retired people are doing a lot of the activities suggested and are the mainstay of the charity shops, caring for grandchildren, planting community gardens, organising and running groups like TWG, WI, U3A, Rotary, Lions, Round Table plus other charity groups.

They are already a volunteer army, perhaps not as appreciated as they should be; many are getting older, in their late 70s, 80s, even 90s and finding younger retired people are just not as interested in taking over the mantle from them.

I'm not Winterwhite, obviously, and she may have her own ideas, but why not ask 70+ year olds to go into primary schools to read stories or talk to children about life in their own childhoods, when everything was in black and white and we had to use encyclopaedias?

Ooh, I'm not sure about that, I'd have trouble getting up fro those little chairs ........

Doodledog

AGAA4

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

Wouldn't it?

It would really scare me.

🤣🤣🤣

I think many of us have worked and contributed voluntarily after retirement. I looked after my grandchildren so my daughter could work as a teacher till I was 73. I know there are many grans who do likewise. It is a form of national service but it should only ever be voluntary.

AGAA4

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

Wouldn't it?

It would really scare me.

As soon as I see Johnson, Blair, Cummings, Starmer, Sunak, Truss, et al, all serving as squaddies and cowering in a muddy trench with nothing more than the same defective weaponry our current armed forces are equipped with, for a minimum of 2 years, I'll enlist and climb in the trench alongside them. Until then, they can bugger off.

MaizieD

Juliet27

I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm afraid that this 'obligations to society' sounds a bit fascist to me.

Almost the opposite of Thatcher's "There is no such thing as society, only individuals" Turn it round and you get "There's no such thing as individuals, only society".

'Society' is a complex concept; any feeling of 'obligation' to it should be voluntary, not forced.

I can see what you mean, but anything can be twisted to mean something other than intended if there is a will to do so.

The UK is a very individualist society, like much of the 'West', and we don't like being compelled to do things (other than queueing), but we are very good at moaning about other groups, and at only mixing with 'people like us'. Call it what you like - an obligation, a duty, an opportunity. Attach certificates, financial recompense, or extra holidays for those who opt in - or something else. It can be packaged in a lot of ways, but some sort of scheme might be a way to encourage a coherence that our society (in which I do believe, incidentally) has lost.

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm not Winterwhite, obviously, and she may have her own ideas, but why not ask 70+ year olds to go into primary schools to read stories or talk to children about life in their own childhoods, when everything was in black and white and we had to use encyclopaedias? Obviously under supervision, and with requisite police checks. Or things like reading for talking newspapers, visiting hospitals, or yes - knitting socks, and teaching others to do so. How often do we hear older people complaining that they managed so much better than young people - why not run community kitchens where people can learn to make soup or lentil pies?

Those with specialist qualifications could use those in a voluntary capacity if they felt better suited to doing so - many already do, in CABs or in other voluntary roles. It need only be fitness and/or mobility that gets in the way of older people doing the same as younger ones, and that can be overcome by getting volunteers to drive taxis or minibuses. Actually, that's something else that community service could provide - public transport in areas currently ill-served by it.

My mum volunteers in a charity shop and a library, and she is 88 - not everyone is so lucky health wise, but my point is that age need not be a barrier.

I'm not saying that we should have 88 year old conscripts, but that instead of assuming that older people can't do much, we could look at what they (as individuals) might like to do. There could be less loneliness, and more understanding between generations if all age groups were included in some sort of national service.

"How can we put them off, Pike?"

First of all, put the water companies in charge of the beaches...

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm afraid that this 'obligations to society' sounds a bit fascist to me.

Almost the opposite of Thatcher's "There is no such thing as society, only individuals" Turn it round and you get "There's no such thing as individuals, only society".

'Society' is a complex concept; any feeling of 'obligation' to it should be voluntary, not forced.

Sorry that was to WhenIwas… not WWM

I was hardly saying it was preferable WWM

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

Well, lots of us are doing our bit for charities already 🙂