Conscription

Maybe non-taxpayers should be expected to ‘do something’ in lieu of contributing financially to society beyond their families?

really?!

The government through parliament has the power to mandate anyone to do anything in times of crisis, war, threat of war, national disaster, it doesn’t mean everyone has to take up arms, the majority will need to take part in Civil Aid and Welfare according to their ability

NotSpaghetti

^Maybe non-taxpayers should be expected to ‘do something’ in lieu of contributing financially to society beyond their families?^

really?!

I’m mooting possible ideas, is all. Why not? We all pay for the armed forces in tax, and they defend everyone, so it would be a way of contributing.

I don’t think responsibility should necessarily fall to the young, who are often resentful of older people anyway. Why not ask people who don’t work to give up a day a week? Obviously if they are looking after a sick person or are I’ll themselves it would be a bad idea, or maybe it’s just a bad idea anyway - I don’t know what I think at this stage.

I don’t think that National Service should be used as punishment- if it comes in it should be across the board for eligibility, I think.

As I said, I’m not talking about Dad’s Army - it could be making food, helping to keep the country self-sufficient, or knitting socks . I really don’t know, but it would be interesting to think about whether it should happen, and if so, how.

There has been a lot in the news about whether the UK will need to conscript citizens in the event of an increasingly likely war in future. What do people make of this?

I'm just deeply depressed at the thought of some of our collective grandchildren ultimately having to become expendable combatants.

I understand that we can't just leave mainland Europe to 'get on with it', but the thought of war is too deeply depressing to even think about what we might be able to do. Or what, in a national emergency, we would be compelled to do.

My step-son was in Iraq. It was an awful, awful worrying time.

Sorry can't contribute something more positive.

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I think they might have a few problems recruiting in this day and age. So many different opinions, so many different loyalties. It’s a different country to how it was in 1939.

NotSpaghetti

^Maybe non-taxpayers should be expected to ‘do something’ in lieu of contributing financially to society beyond their families?^

really?!

Who doesn't pay some form of tax in the UK?

It could be that the head of the armed forces is trying to cause an outcry
General Sir Patrick Sanders is Head of the British Army, not Head of the UK Armed Services.
He is due to retire soon.

I could just imagine an army of OAPs who don’t pay tax. I used to love Dad’s Army back in the day. I assume pensioners don’t have to pay tax of course.

"Don't tell them your name *Doodledog!!"

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I suspect that there is a lot of that in this announcement. Plus, if things were so bad that someone like me had to be called up we may as well give up.

Any national service would probably have to be to keep the forces going, so intelligence, manufacturing, food production and so on. But it needn’t stop there. It could extend to socially beneficial services such as happened during Covid, or other areas that weren’t possible then for reasons of health.

We have a mental health crisis, and problems with fitness and obesity - maybe getting the population fitter is a good idea regardless of a possible war?

A big part of me resists the idea of making something like this compulsory, but there will always be people who expect others to do things so they don’t have to, so maybe it should be? I repeat - I am musing really. I certainly don’t have a plan, not that anyone would take notice of it if I did.

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?

We'll send General Sanders.

Sorry, I might be wrong, but I think he's trying to make a name for himself before he retires, having been passed over for the top job a few years ago.

Callistemon21

"Don't tell them your name *Doodledog!!"

Well, that did make me LOL

Callistemon21

"Don't tell them your name *Doodledog!!"

I missed that, Pike!

Loose lips sink ships, you know

We live in a very different world now than 1939 as one poster upthread mentioned. Someone in the past of whom I was very fond volunteered as soon as war was declared in September 1939. He felt it was his duty. He took a bullet in his chest while on active service and never recoved his full health. He died prematurely.

There is no longer the same respect and deference for authority, and honour and duty have somehow become dirty words, with connotations of colonialism. Young people now are far better educated and far more questioning than their forebears. I doubt that many of them would willingly serve as "cannon fodder".

Our generation has already done enough for this country. Certainly I have. I wont be volunteering to do anything.

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I thought this too.
We have cut back on our defence so far that military personnel have been warning us for years that we are actually no longer able to defend ourselves should the need arise.
The first thing that should happen is that we should increase expenditure on our armed forces so that we could at least have the capability to defend ourselves if need be.
It is the first responsibility of government to ensure the protection of the public.

Some sort of National service would be a good idea imo. Try to instill a bit of discipline, national pride and camaraderie in our young. If we don’t do something of the sort now I don’t think we have any hope of recruiting enough to the armed forces should we need them. I wouldn’t necessarily want an exclusively military training for young people just something that got them off their games consoles and taught them how to pull together as a team. As for the rest of us I think alot of people would pull their weight in a crisis, though knitting socks might be my limit.

Doodledog

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I suspect that there is a lot of that in this announcement. Plus, if things were so bad that someone like me had to be called up we may as well give up.

Any national service would probably have to be to keep the forces going, so intelligence, manufacturing, food production and so on. But it needn’t stop there. It could extend to socially beneficial services such as happened during Covid, or other areas that weren’t possible then for reasons of health.

We have a mental health crisis, and problems with fitness and obesity - maybe getting the population fitter is a good idea regardless of a possible war?

A big part of me resists the idea of making something like this compulsory, but there will always be people who expect others to do things so they don’t have to, so maybe it should be? I repeat - I am musing really. I certainly don’t have a plan, not that anyone would take notice of it if I did.

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?

Indeed, what do we do?

If Starmer wins the next election and Trump becomes President... as Rafael Behr says in the G, "It’s hard to imagine the vindictive despot and the former human rights lawyer enjoying a ‘special relationship’

... He (Trump) has threatened to pull the US out of Nato, and is reported to have said that he would not come to Europe’s defence if it came under attack. He is an admirer of Vladimir Putin. In trade and diplomacy, threat is his only negotiating tool. He thinks laws make no demands of him but can be used as weapons against rivals."

Food for thought. It will probably keep me awake for some time.

The idea of a nuclear deterrent is to prevent a global war, with missiles that can hit any target there is no other defence.
A regional war as we have in Ukraine is different it takes both sides to gear up, increasing the destruction until one side or the other gives in. In the past the US and others have decided to step in and help one side, a few they have won, mostly they havn't helped.

Russia is the immediate threat to Europe, until Ukraine they were relatively acquiescent until Ukraine wanted closer ties with the west. That has proved very costly, so far we have not fully backed up their ambitions, maybe it would have been better to tell Ukraine to stay neutral from the start

The wrong time to introduce the idea of conscription it seems from social media

People struggling, think that the government has little time for them and their struggles so the reply can be summed up like this

“We starve you, freeze you, exploit you, repeatedly infect you, steal your pensions, remove your opportunities, saddle you with debt, deny you housing, gaslight you, demonise you ....

Oh, and by the way, will you lay down your life for us”

First you need to treat your citizens with respect before asking them to lay down their lives for a country where only the rich seem to benefit.

I hate the idea of any plan to conscript but at the end of the day if we were attacked it seems we may not have the manpower to withstand lengthy attacks so what’s the answer? Allow ourselves to be over run? I don’t know what the answer would be if the unthinkable should happen.

As far as I am concerned, the government has put us in this position, ctting back on anything they get their hands on but yet permitting the unelected toffs in the House of Lords to be paid large sums of money just to turn up and paying people in government jobs a lot of money in wages.

The government should cut back on their meetings and flying all over the world to attend them when we are in the age of technology as they could join meetings sitting at their office desk on ZOOM.

We have the homeless, immigrants etc. etc. will they be called up to fight, I don't think so because the government don't know who they are. The only people to be called up will be the people who pay their dues to society.

This is the Governments mess, let them get off their backsides and join the forces, but then again they will join the forces sitting behind a desk out of arms way.

I wouldn't want my grandsons to make up for the shortfall caused by the Tories in the armed forces.
As NATO are preparing for conflict with Russia in the coming years there needs to be recruitment now not conscription later and more funding for defence rather than wasting money on the Rwanda project.

It’s probably a sort of blackmail scenario for more money for the armed forces.I think there should be more spent on beefing things up.
We all know that in times of war conscription happens, and it may happen, but we are in NATO so are a small cog in a big wheel and our regular servicemen and servicewomen will play their part on our behalf.In the event of NATO countries being in an all out war with Russia then we would all want to help in whatever way was needed.Or most of us would I should think.
It’s such a long time since we have been in an all out war situation that it seems dreadful to think about, but of course it could happen at any time.
In this particular case tho I really believe it’s more about needing more to be spent on defence.