Conscription

Doodledog

I veer between being concerned about what seems like the inevitability of a major war and doubting that it will happen. China's economy is suffering from the property crash, and will get worse before it gets better. Russia is tied up with Ukraine, and that's not going well for Putin, Iran isn't in a position to take on a superpower, and neither Biden nor Trump is keen to fight outside of American borders - another Vietnam is not going to be popular for either of them in an election year. Plus, the fear of mutually assured destruction has fended off all-out war since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and I don't think anything has happened to change that.

European economies (including ours) are floundering, and rearming might help, but as a policy that hasn't been popular for decades, so the papers could well be selling us the idea that war is inevitable in order to soften us up. There is an imminent budget, so maybe people will be happier at the idea of paying an arms tax than at the idea of their sons and daughters being called up. In my youth I was a paid-up member of CND, but even I was mattering to Mr Dog about the need to grow the armed forces the other day.

I don't know. I can't say I'm not concerned, but I'm not digging a bunker either. I very much doubt that military conscription is likely to happen, as if there were a war it probably won't be like the one in Ukraine.

That doesn't mean that some sort of citizen service wouldn't be a good idea, though. It could reduce the divisions in society, open doors and minds, and rebuild the society that was lost under Thatcher. I doubt it will happen, as a divided, self-interested and inward-looking population is more biddable and less dangerous to governments of all stripes.

sound and thoughtful post Doodledog.. I too am torn between those two possibilities..

I veer between being concerned about what seems like the inevitability of a major war and doubting that it will happen. China's economy is suffering from the property crash, and will get worse before it gets better. Russia is tied up with Ukraine, and that's not going well for Putin, Iran isn't in a position to take on a superpower, and neither Biden nor Trump is keen to fight outside of American borders - another Vietnam is not going to be popular for either of them in an election year. Plus, the fear of mutually assured destruction has fended off all-out war since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and I don't think anything has happened to change that.

European economies (including ours) are floundering, and rearming might help, but as a policy that hasn't been popular for decades, so the papers could well be selling us the idea that war is inevitable in order to soften us up. There is an imminent budget, so maybe people will be happier at the idea of paying an arms tax than at the idea of their sons and daughters being called up. In my youth I was a paid-up member of CND, but even I was mattering to Mr Dog about the need to grow the armed forces the other day.

I don't know. I can't say I'm not concerned, but I'm not digging a bunker either. I very much doubt that military conscription is likely to happen, as if there were a war it probably won't be like the one in Ukraine.

That doesn't mean that some sort of citizen service wouldn't be a good idea, though. It could reduce the divisions in society, open doors and minds, and rebuild the society that was lost under Thatcher. I doubt it will happen, as a divided, self-interested and inward-looking population is more biddable and less dangerous to governments of all stripes.

Well said, BlueBelle!

I have faith in our young folk, and like to think that if the U.K. were to be in a situation where we had to defend our shores that there would be queues outside the offices to sign up voluntarily grannygravy I disagree wholeheartedly

I hope to god none of my grandsons or granddaughters are ever in that queue
I can NEVER agree with young people picking up guns to kill and be killed War is the most idiotic thing I d encourage them to go and live in a neutral country just minding its own business although I know at least one grandson who’d be ‘there’ in a flash but who has no idea what real war means

Talking is always better than killing

nanna8

There are about 25,000 Russian born migrants in Australia but it is increasing ( can’t think why!)and about 1.5 million Chinese. The Chinese people own most of the shopping malls and many of the big ranches and the 1.5 million is just those here permanently. There are many,many more who commute between here but have a home in China. I really can’t see any of those people fighting for the Americans . There are also many people from Middle Eastern countries who might not happily support British or American interests. Hope it never comes to that.

There are indeed Chinese residents in many developing countries mostly running businesses that the locals formerly owned, that’s the price of foreign aid. Australia, NZ and Canada are used as safe havens for Chinese in case of domestic problems in China.

There are about 25,000 Russian born migrants in Australia but it is increasing ( can’t think why!)and about 1.5 million Chinese. The Chinese people own most of the shopping malls and many of the big ranches and the 1.5 million is just those here permanently. There are many,many more who commute between here but have a home in China. I really can’t see any of those people fighting for the Americans . There are also many people from Middle Eastern countries who might not happily support British or American interests. Hope it never comes to that.

maddyone

I think if we went to war it would either be Russia or Iran.
But just my thoughts, I don’t really know.

and China and Korea

I think there is….

I there already is a war of ideologies in Britain and in Europe. Certainly a clash of cultures, but I actually think Britain is far more accepting of differences than most of Europe.

Perhaps we are already at war.

I think if we went to war it would either be Russia or Iran.
But just my thoughts, I don’t really know.

Yes, it would depend on who the war was with. Assuming Russia, then we certainly have Russian people living in the UK, but I would think not too many. However I don’t actually know what the number is, I’m just assuming not too many.
But we have many Chinese people in Britain so any war with the UK and involving China would be a very different matter.

The world seems so unstable who knows where war will come from.

I don't think there are many migrants of Russian heritage but I await your input.

Sounds like a good reason for Australia to become a republic. No doubt we would follow like a bunch of lemmings and that’s exactly what it would be - running over the side of a cliff. How would it fit with a country with so many non British migrants who wouldn’t necessarily support a war against their own people? They wouldn’t be able to inter them all, too many.

NotSpaghetti

...by that I mean ^I wonder if they would want their jobs back?^

I would be surprised if they did, especially after having done tour of duty in a place like Afghanistan.

...by that I mean I wonder if they would want their jobs back?

I wonder if they'd want them, Diggingdoris?

I live in a garrison town and I know how disgusted we were a few years ago when some of our soldiers were made redundant in government cutbacks. Some had just returned from Afghanistan and received their redundancy notice by text!!! What an insult, after risking their lives. Will any of them be offered their jobs back now we need to raise the numbers of recruits?

I think if NATO wanted an army then it would be comprised of soldiers from more countries than just the UK.
However I’ve been concerned for some time about the steady dropping of funding to our arms services. This has been going on for years, and yet the first duty of government is to defend the population. There are many areas which need more funding but this is probably the one that needs it first, bearing in mind the situation with Putin. If we know that the government are not funding our armed services properly, he surely does too.

I don't think NATO is going to be asking for boots on the ground any time soon.

Urmstongran

How big an army might we need to defend our allies and ourselves? James Heappey, the Armed Forces minister, has spoken of the need for up to half a million troops, including reservists, to be deployed if Nato were called upon to fight a full-scale land war against Russian aggression.

Yet such numbers have not been seen since national service was abolished in 1960. After the latest round of cuts the Army will have a total strength of only about 70,000 combat troops. The 20,000 personnel who have been committed to Steadfast Defender, the largest Nato military exercise since the Cold War, represent the maximum force that the UK is currently capable of deploying on the front line in Eastern Europe.

I'm old enough to remember years of the Cold War, plus I have visited countries which were previously under the USSR yoke and learned about their fights for freedom.

cakmib

SueEH, I suppose the gung ho and whole villages joining up is connected to propaganda. Since we no longer have a free press, it would be very easy to manipulate the population.

🤔

I do not think that it would happen in this day and age
Of course it wouldn't, this is not 1914!

How big an army might we need to defend our allies and ourselves? James Heappey, the Armed Forces minister, has spoken of the need for up to half a million troops, including reservists, to be deployed if Nato were called upon to fight a full-scale land war against Russian aggression.

Yet such numbers have not been seen since national service was abolished in 1960. After the latest round of cuts the Army will have a total strength of only about 70,000 combat troops. The 20,000 personnel who have been committed to Steadfast Defender, the largest Nato military exercise since the Cold War, represent the maximum force that the UK is currently capable of deploying on the front line in Eastern Europe.

silverlining48

Pensioners do pay tax in the UK grandtante

Only if their income is above the threshold, the same as in Australia, where nanna8 lives.
Pensioners pay tax in Australia too, dependent upon income.

The standard Personal Allowance is £12,570 for all in the UK.