Brexit Fallout

The reasons the NHS has to recruit foreign doctors and other staff are (1) the government's failure to fund enough medical school places to meet the needs and (2) the UK's population which has fewer people of working age than formerly. The only short term solution is increased immigration and foreign recruitment.

DaisyAnneReturns I don’t have the power to make anyone do anything!
The State ? Medical degrees cost a lot and that needs to be recognised.
Seems to me that young professionals- teachers and engineers for example are also in very short supply in the UK . Teachers also work very long hours and engineers have responsibility for the safety of many people. Therefore young professionals here are all affected by high house prices, high childcare, high food and fuel costs etc. Surprisingly some people chose to live here.

It's not just the future doctor who benefits from their training ronib. We all do. Are you going to make everyone work for the state? All degrees are subsidised.

casdonI shall wade through the 133 pages at my leisure. Thanks for the link.

It absolutely is the point ronib. The vast majority of UK trained doctors do work already for 5 years for the NHS post qualification. More senior doctors leaving creates much harder to fill gaps in the system.
There are some excellent reports from the GMC which will give you insight into what is happening and why.
www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/drivers-of-international-migration-research-final-report_pdf-88769526.pdf
www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/migration-decisions-research-report_pdf-94525731.pdf

casdon. Not the point - if after working 5 years , junior doctors leave the profession or country, then at least the home country has had some benefit from the very expensive training costs.

Although listening to Amanda Pritchard head of the NHS on Laura K recently, technology is being developed- robotic surgery, Artificial Intelligence etc which should help with delivery of services.

What is it that makes you think that it is junior doctors who don’t already have five years experience who are leaving the NHS?
www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/22/nhs-growing-exodus-senior-doctors-surgeons-foreign-healthcare-systems

Casdon the cost of medical training per doctor is huge. I think one condition of training is to stay for a set period say 5 years or else repay the training costs.
And also very important to spell out to hopeful entrants exactly how much pay is on the table plus working conditions. It gives time to reconsider alternative careers.

No ronib I don’t think it’s all a matter of perception. We are talking about highly trained professionals having control of their own career paths, and they, like every other profession should be able to decide their own work destiny. Don’t forget that every doctor who leaves the UK is doing so for a reason - for most of them it’s because they are offered better working conditions and higher pay elsewhere. That’s also why the UK has so many medical vacancies, less doctors from overseas want to work in the UK now, for the same reasons.

Casdon I did say take your pick! All a matter of perception don’t you think?
Although arguably it is worse to take trained medics from quite impoverished countries to fill in the gaps here caused by an exodus to NZ and Australia from the Uk.

ronib

*Grantanow*. There’s another scam surrounding the NHS- poaching doctors and nurses from third world countries.
Not to mention New Zealand and Australia skimming off the Uk trained medics. Facts and more facts - take your pick!

Why is it a scandal when other countries employ doctors trained her, but not a scandal when we employ doctors trained in other countries?

Grantanow. There’s another scam surrounding the NHS- poaching doctors and nurses from third world countries.
Not to mention New Zealand and Australia skimming off the Uk trained medics. Facts and more facts - take your pick!

MaizieD

Unfortunately 'Project Fear' was stronger than facts...

Agreed. My experience on Gransnet is some people don't like facts (especially about private medicine scamming off the NHS) but Brexit is a prime example. The emotional thrust of Leave overwhelmed the facts of Remain.

Unfortunately 'Project Fear' was stronger than facts...

Grantanow yes, exactly. I’m always astounded when Brexit voters say ‘this isn’t what I voted for’, because it’s definitely what I voted against.

There were plenty of warnings from politicians and others who opposed Brexit which Leave voters could have listened to instead of being seduced by the lies and propaganda of the other side. The Leave voters are responsible for the mess.

I blame the Leave Liars

Now many good folk who believed the lies do feel guilty.

Those who were deceived into voting Leave, but now understand the truth should shout it from the rooftops

-"We were fooled by the Leave Liars into damaging our country - which we never wanted to do. Never again should anyone in the UK trust the right wing propaganda of The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Sun, The Daily Telegraph... The interests of their billionaire proprietors are not your interests"

Etoile2701

It serves the people right who voted leave. I always knew Brexit was a bad idea.

Considering the rosy future that was foretold for a Britain going-it-alone and not being shackled by Brussels; and, basically, no Brexit big-wig honestly highlighting the negatives which various enthusiasts are now at pains to point out we-should-have-realised/known/understood - I think it's a bit much to blame those that voted to Leave for the resultant mess.

Homesickforscotland

Please can everyone just get on with it. No amount of winging will change anything.

No, it won't. But a properly function government, without the obsession for themselves, might well.

Homesickforscotland

Please can everyone just get on with it. No amount of winging will change anything.

Erm... we are getting on with it. Partly because that's what people do when 'life' deals a bad card and secondly because we have to.

I suspect what you are really saying is please-can-everyone-stop-talking-about-it?

As the negotiations are still a work-in-progress which is having an impact on some people's lives, the answer is NO.

Those opposed to our original entry didn't stop "winging" about it for 40 odd years, so... brace yourself .

Homesickforscotland

Please can everyone just get on with it. No amount of winging will change anything.

You're right. The tories have been winging it since Johnson took over. It hasn't changed much..

Or did you mean 'whingeing'? Though I 'm not sure what we're meant to be getting on with...

It serves the people right who voted leave. I always knew Brexit was a bad idea.

Please can everyone just get on with it. No amount of winging will change anything.

I’d love, like many others, to buy exclusively British produce, BUT…..

Often far more expensive
Not always available
Farmers suffering so moving to other ways to make their income

What’s wrong with people? We are a tiny Island, populated, it appears, with people with Empire attitudes

Brexit is a disaster for this country. Those who believed the fairy tales are responsible for our current situation. The politicians who lied should be made accountable. It is our democratic right to stand up and speak the truth about the fiasco.