Boy, 4y, allowed to join CoE school as a girl.

I feel so bad for them, everything is generally equal in primary, really shouldn't matter how they identify as long as they have access to the learning
The problem arises, surely, if a child identifies as an animal which is just not possible.

Should adults go along with this to avoid being accused of bullying?
I'm not talking about a hypothetical situation here, btw.

This boy, at 7, seems to want to prove he is, in fact, male, if he is in fact waving his sex organ around in front of girls in order to intimidate them.

How do the adults around him deal with this development?

VioletSky

I feel so bad for them, everything is generally equal in primary, really shouldn't matter how they identify as long as they have access to the learning. I hope they achieve a happy outcome but the chances don't look good when they are just 4 and grown adults are already bullying them

I don't agree, this child is four, he needs to be parented, he needs to be told he is a boy and sent to school dressed appropriately.
No adult is bullying him, the parents and the School kept it a secret,the boy when aged 7 was getting his male parts out, and the girls were upset because he was behaving in a inappropriate manner.
I despair as I think the girls and their parents were deceived. His behaviour to them now is upsetting.

Doodledog

*At the heart of it is a child for whom the parents and the school tried to do their best. Even if it was wrong, even if the child was being influenced in some way, they remain an innocent child. The reason for the secrecy is blatantly obvious.*

It's not blatantly obvious to me.

I'm not disagreeing that at the heart of this is an innocent child - or he was at the age of four. An older child waving his penis about is another matter - particularly if he supposedly 'identifies' as a girl off his own bat. That sounds like disturbed behaviour however you cut it, so the approach taken by the school hasn't been particularly successful.

It may well be that the parents and the school have acted in what they think are his best interests, but it shouldn't be the case that the best interests of one child are prioritised over those of the rest of the class. Even if this were the best way to deal with this boy (which I dispute), what about the point I made earlier about children needing to learn to trust their instincts and the evidence of their eyes, and being betrayed by the adults who lied about the sex of their classmate?

Try replacing the change of gender with some other condition say autism would you demand that the parents and school reveal the condition to all the other members of the school?
If not why should this be revealed.
The school has a duty of confidentiality for all children.
I don't think it is a question of prioritising best interests but of seeking a balance which ensures all are treated fairly.
As for the evidence of their eyes. How many children actually see evidence of the sex of anyone in a school setting?

Oldbat,I think a huge number of children/ young people never use the toilet out of the home. Terribly sad and unhealthy. I remember 20 odd years ago,mine rushing straight to the loo after coming home at 3.30! Not 6pm

Is the best for the child now going against all current advice for those children experiencing gender confusion.

Ah well,never mind eh. Its handy fodder to rant about here.

The book is The Sinkings by Amanda Curtin. 2008

Caleo If I am confusing sex and gender which I may very well be how and where does intersex fit in?
I've read a book, a novel, on the subject so know that, although rare, it still happens and babies born with both sexual organs have their penis removed.

It may well be that the parents and the school have acted in what they think are his best interests, but it shouldn't be the case that the best interests of one child are prioritised over those of the rest of the class
👏👏👏

And what about the lesson being learned by children that their teachers might lie to them.

At the heart of it is a child for whom the parents and the school tried to do their best. Even if it was wrong, even if the child was being influenced in some way, they remain an innocent child. The reason for the secrecy is blatantly obvious.

It's not blatantly obvious to me.

I'm not disagreeing that at the heart of this is an innocent child - or he was at the age of four. An older child waving his penis about is another matter - particularly if he supposedly 'identifies' as a girl off his own bat. That sounds like disturbed behaviour however you cut it, so the approach taken by the school hasn't been particularly successful.

It may well be that the parents and the school have acted in what they think are his best interests, but it shouldn't be the case that the best interests of one child are prioritised over those of the rest of the class. Even if this were the best way to deal with this boy (which I dispute), what about the point I made earlier about children needing to learn to trust their instincts and the evidence of their eyes, and being betrayed by the adults who lied about the sex of their classmate?

Oldbat1

Grandsons comp local authority school toilets are all mixed sex/gender neutral all seemingly have a gap at the top and a gap at the bottom of each “stall”. No privacy at all. All these toilets also open out to the main corridor. He refuses to use the toilets (as would I) the teaching staff/admin staff are also expected to use these toilets. It is a fairly new build school. How ridiculous. He rushes in from school every day and makes a bee line to the loo.

I find this surprising as I was sure it was a requirement schools provide separate bathrooms for male and female pupils.
I looked and found this :-
While separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over must already be provided in Schools, except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time
I found this on the Gov. uk site . It looks like his school should be challenged for breaking the law.

Mollygo

*Reading this thread I don't think it's shame, it's a matter of protection.*

The protection of whom?
One group, or all groups. How was this to be achieved in the situation mentioned on here?

Well had the parents chosen to make this matter public knowledge, there would have been people telling them they were abusing their child, people questioning the child, people refusing to believe any of it and people who are simply antagonistic. All of these views are represented on this thread. At the heart of it is a child for whom the parents and the school tried to do their best. Even if it was wrong, even if the child was being influenced in some way, they remain an innocent child. The reason for the secrecy is blatantly obvious.

Reading this thread I don't think it's shame, it's a matter of protection.

The protection of whom?
One group, or all groups. How was this to be achieved in the situation mentioned on here?

Although probably not intended to be, I did find your post amusing VS. Precisely who are the adults bullying this
child?

Grandsons comp local authority school toilets are all mixed sex/gender neutral all seemingly have a gap at the top and a gap at the bottom of each “stall”. No privacy at all. All these toilets also open out to the main corridor. He refuses to use the toilets (as would I) the teaching staff/admin staff are also expected to use these toilets. It is a fairly new build school. How ridiculous. He rushes in from school every day and makes a bee line to the loo.

Rosie51

What grown adults are bullying this 7 year old child?

None; if parents are upset it may be because they have been lied to, their daughters feel upset at their friend whom they thought was a girl producing a penis and threatening the girls.

Who is the bully here?
Or should that be counted as normal behaviour now?

Has this child now decided he is a boy?

What grown adults are bullying this 7 year old child?

I feel so bad for them, everything is generally equal in primary, really shouldn't matter how they identify as long as they have access to the learning. I hope they achieve a happy outcome but the chances don't look good when they are just 4 and grown adults are already bullying them

rafichagran

Callistemon21

And if they said "Thank you, but I know I'm a boy, I feel like a boy. And I want to be called by a boy's name and sit with boys

Why sit with boys?

Even all those many years ago when I was at infants' school, we sat in pairs, boy/girl.

I sat next to a boy who couldn't spell so I helped him. In return he taught me to swear.

I loved your last paragraph call it appealed to my sense of humour. You could say it was a fair exchange.

And he carefully spelt out the swear words too
Wrongly, as I found out years later. 😁
Thank you John!

Poor boy. He was part of the secret set up. Inside I bet he was scared. “Don’t tell”.

It’s abuse.

Callistemon21

^And if they said "Thank you, but I know I'm a boy, I feel like a boy. And I want to be called by a boy's name and sit with boys^

Why sit with boys?

Even all those many years ago when I was at infants' school, we sat in pairs, boy/girl.

I sat next to a boy who couldn't spell so I helped him. In return he taught me to swear.

I loved your last paragraph call it appealed to my sense of humour. You could say it was a fair exchange.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Another message from this story seems to be that gender dysphoria is something to be hidden, to be ashamed of.
The school had to keep this a secret.

🤔

Reading this thread I don't think it's shame, it's a matter of protection.

Let’s hope the little girls who he exposed himself to and threatened are getting protection and counselling.

Yes, I think they were traumatised.

Not necessarily because of the willy-waving - some little boys do that (is it a power thing?) - but because this had been kept secret and they thought their friend was a girl, female human, like them.

Well, he's outed himself now, hasn't he.

GrannyGravy13

Caleo

Calistemon, he sounds like a naughty boy, and the little girls sound like wimps.

Your chosen gender is not necessarily your anatomical sex. It may be and again it may not be.

Well that gets the award for the most ridiculous post on here so far .

Well, he does sound like a naughty boy!!

And one who is starting to feel his power.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Another message from this story seems to be that gender dysphoria is something to be hidden, to be ashamed of.
The school had to keep this a secret.

🤔

Reading this thread I don't think it's shame, it's a matter of protection.

Let’s hope the little girls who he exposed himself to and threatened are getting protection and counselling.

Callistemon21

Another message from this story seems to be that gender dysphoria is something to be hidden, to be ashamed of.
The school had to keep this a secret.

🤔

Reading this thread I don't think it's shame, it's a matter of protection.